<p>Hmmm… guessing it’s okay for polar to take Beliavsky to task but not okay to state the obvious…that’s “liberal logic” for you…perhaps the most apropos oxymoron of all time.</p>
<p>IME it (usually) takes some laps of the sun and some actual business (from the ownership side) experience to truly understand certain aspects of it. I’ve seen more than one “convert” after trying to start a business and seeing what, exactly, is involved between legislation/regulations and the quality of the workforce available (whether college grad or not). Those who find good workers try hard to keep them in most cases (esp small businesses where the owner actually knows the worker). The economy has been such that they can’t always.</p>
<p>There is no disagreement that regulations cause extra costs on the employment side. However, the budding business owner will need to balance the costs of regulation with the benefits, as well as the costs of regulation with the down-the-road alternatives such as unionization.</p>
<p>I am quite surprised that so few retail/service jobs have not been unionized yet especially in high profile, high number retailers (big box retail). It has not happened yet given the political climate, but given a few more years of the current and any foreseen climates and the continuing view of labor as a burden (rather than as a partner, say, as in Germany with Works Councils and the like) I think that all it will take is a few more clicks of the dial.</p>
<p>Will it happen in a dramatic style or quietly? I don’t know.</p>
<p>Yeah UCbalmus I did major in biological sciences though am back in school for a solid backup and am going to apply for Med school. Pathology is my dream career :-), but I also need to be realistic as well and have a well-paying backup. I understand the bio market isn’t great (at least in the US), so I’m trying to parlay into more marketable fringe industries. </p>
<p>To everyone else, the point of my rant is that great civilizations rise and fall. The US is no longer the richest country in the world per capita. Norway, Singapore, Qatar, Luxemborg etc. are a few examples of wealthier countries. Also when you look at median income (not averages with outliers skewing the analysis) the median American makes ~29k a year. Income disparity in this country is ridiculous, healthcare is amazingly ineffective and bloated, and tuition which costs 3-10k a year elsewhere averages like 20-25k a year here.</p>
<p>Our nation’s heyday might be past, it may not. But until things improve I encourage others to look abroad. Since birth we are brainwashed to love America. But I encourage adventurous grads who aren’t satisfied with their employment to seek employment abroad. Geophysics graduate students should definitely look into mining in Australia, scientists/computer science grads Singapore, qualified engineers Germany etc. </p>
<p>Hell I might try med school in another FIRST WORLD nation. No use paying 150k for my local in-state school (where a former Dean convicted of massive fraud managed a 600k severence and pension) when I can pay minimally and practice abroad in other wonderful nations. And despite slightly lower overall salaries abroad (though from what I know Canadian and Australian specialists earn similar salaries to Americans) malpractice and gross administrative costs aren’t as much of a problem. </p>
<p>Consider graduate school abroad kiddos. With the exception of the Ivy League schools (and even this is subjective) there are many schools abroad which are as good or better than ours. Prepare to work in a globalized world and minimize debts as much as possible.</p>
<p>Creekland, as one who has both run a small manufacturing enterprise and now owns part of one, I can assure you that the tipping point has come and there is over-regulation, particularly for a small business who doesn’t have the personnel resource to oversee the burden of National, State, County and City regulations. </p>
<p>Turbo93, to your point, the same applies, union’s took it too far and had far too much control (see the Auto Industry and now the government “unions”). Private enterprises then react and simply move their workforce elsewhere or take other actions to remain competitive. Also, your statement about Germany is laughable, as unions had complete control for quite some time before it hit a tipping point which caused German companies to refrain from hiring since it was impossible to lay someone off (exactly what happened in the U.S. Auto Industry…paying production personnel who weren’t even working…).</p>
<p>jsperling, while I disagree with much of your rant, I do commend you for being proactive in seeking out other fields and even employment in other parts of the “globalized world.” That being said, I just read an article this morning that Microsoft and the high tech industry needs about 120,000 computer science grads to fill positions but the U.S. only graduates about 40,000 a year; hence, Microsoft, who does about 80% of their research here, is saying they will have to look elsewhere to keep up with their needs. So, while it may not be for everyone, there are clear signs as to where the jobs are being created and the U.S. Colleges simply aren’t producing enough graduates to fill some of them.</p>
<p>Yet college grads are greatly under-employed. </p>
<p>We have to look at what colleges cost. We have to look at what they teach. </p>
<p>The problem with a liberal arts education vs a pre-professional/technical degree is that a liberal arts degree requires further education and training to get most jobs. At the cost of college, most kids are priced out.</p>
<p>Also, too many degrees are for low paying work. Easy majors that kids, otherwise unprepared for college level work, pursue.</p>
<p>And student desires to pursue altruistic occupations is dumbfounding to me. I get a small percent of kids committing to that type of education and work but most kids should be going for science, tech and business.</p>
<p>We need to bring back apprenticeships and make training in the trades part of a high school curriculum.</p>
<p>I just remembered that my friend’s D, had to spend time working on a farm as part of her learning when they lived in Australia. Cool stuff. It might cut down on fat kids too.</p>
<p>ExhaustedDad - I’m certainly not someone you need to convince. My “conversion” came a few years back - not terribly long after my other half started his own small business. It’s still going, but we’ve cut back a ton - and no longer employ anyone else. Like other places, subcontracting is the better way. There are also other similar firms that did not make it. Those who could have retired, but it’s tough for newly minted college grads to take over their spots.</p>
<p>My half is in our local public high school. Most who retire there don’t get replaced any longer. Class sizes have increased instead. It’s kind of better if I don’t go on about either half.</p>
<p>Suffice it to say I’m NOT fond of most regulations nor bureaucracy in either field. It may not be long before we hop overseas too, but more likely to a second or third world place rather than first world. I have one more to get into college. That comes first. I’m still VERY pro education for those academically inclined and able. All three of my kiddos may end up overseas though - even the two in desirable fields (accounting and medicine). They talk about it, but they’ll be the ones to decide for themselves.</p>
<p>ExhaustedDad, I have spent enough time in Germany to know that what they have now, ‘laughable’ or not, works for them. The very reason I go there is for our German subsidiary to avoid paying overtime. Nothing better than a sunny Saturday morning in Hanover with our facility full of ODST’s brought from all over the Empire to save the project and not a single one of them being German.</p>
<p>At the same time, they deliver their projects on time, on schedule, and so on without hiring and firing people like we do (cyclical business). And while they require ODST’S once in a while for a few weeks this is a far cry from our US operations whose first staffing consideration is how much of the project to outsource to the least common denominator.</p>
<p>The way we are going, we will win the race to the bottom with a majority of workers cheering all the way down.</p>
<p>(ODST: orbital drop shock trooper)</p>
<p>In HI, it has long been common for people with bachelor’s degrees to work as secretaries and/or clerks and/or sales jobs. Nearly every civil servant I know has a bachelor’s degree, master’s degree or higher. It’s not that the job really REQUIRES the degree, it’s just that if you don’t have it and apply while another equally attractive candidate applies for the same job WITH the degree, guess whom they usually hire?</p>
<p>I knew an attorney who worked for many years as a legal secretary–few in the firm even knew she was licensed to practice law. She is now serving as caregiver for her aging folks & grade school child. </p>
<p>In HI (& I suspect many other places), this is sadly NOT new. Of the dozens of college grads we know, there are many who have not yet found a full-time job in their field of study or any job that requires a college degree. The exception is a few teachers have landed teaching jobs. Even nurses, respiratory therapists, and other “shortage fields” in HI are NOT hiring and in fact some are laying off skilled workers.</p>
<p>turbo, sounds like the overhead at your company is way to high, that’s why it is way cheaper to outsource. As far as you speculation that they send those projects to the “least common denominator”, to mean that means they are sending it to a smaller, more agile company with far less overhead. What’s wrong with that?</p>
<p>Again, if it is so great in other parts of the world, sounds like you know where the airport is… I must say however, that you might find your freedoms stifled a bit in some of those other countries. Just read this morning that in Germany, Finland, and other utopias you seem to like, that there are laws governing the first names you can use for your children…nice place to live.</p>
<p>A college degree is not a guarantee of a stimulating job in the field of your choice. It merely gives you a chance. One way to look at it is that there are many people working in jobs that do not require the skills and education gained through attending college. I agree. The other way to look at the situation is how many of the really good, career track jobs are filled by folks who do not have a degree? Very few I would venture to guess.</p>
<p>A college degree educates you…it doesn’t give you initiative, common sense, a personality, ambition, or cleverness. It doesn’t provide the ability to easily adapt to new situations and changing circumstance. There is a world of things that you will not (may not?) get by attending college for 4 years. And it certainly doesn’t give you luck, which I think is a key ingredient to success. </p>
<p>Big surprise…some get the choice jobs and some get the dregs.</p>
<p>jsperling said: </p>
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<p>It really isn’t appropriate to compare a large country like the US with small countries like the ones you chose above. You are essentially cherry-picking a small population. It is more appropriate to compare all of Europe against the US, or conversely, to compare one small country against a selected state (or city!) in the US. With that you will see that the US is still quite competitive.</p>
<p>Also, there is really nothing wrong with even large income disparity if there is sufficient opportunity for everyone. I happen to think that there isn’t equal opportunity for everyone due to various vested interests, but that’s a different topic.</p>
<p>As noted, a college degree does not guarantee you anything; it simply gives you a leg up on someone without one (for most professional positions). Furthermore, if you are going to get a degree in a field that provides little opportunity in today’s world, who is to blame? My son’s girlfriend has a masters in Existential Psychology and, surprise, can’t find work in “her field”. That being said, I personally believe the onus is on the Universities to properly advise their “customers” what the current and future job prospects are at the time of admission; otherwise, the Universities are simply nothing more than puppy mills with little concern about the future of their graduates.</p>
<p>At McDonald’s in HI, you can make it to Asst. Mgr. perhaps in a year or less but will NEVER go higher unless you get a bachelor’s degree. My HS BF was made an asst. mgr. while still in HS–last I heard from him 30 years later, he can still not crack that glass ceiling, even when willing to relocate around the country because no college degree.</p>
<p>HImom, well, if that’s the rule for McDonalds I guess they do a very good job of sticking to it. Of course, it doesn’t take a college degree to manage a fast food joint but it does show initiative when you get that piece of paper (apparently your HS BF didn’t have that much initiative; maybe a good thing you moved on 
).</p>
<p>“It may not be long before we hop overseas too, but more likely to a second or third world place rather than first world.”</p>
<p>Why do we have to do that? Born here and work hard alone should entitle everyone to a good life IMO. I think most of us here in the States work really hard.</p>
<p>Most people in most countries do work really hard. What standard of living any of them are able to enjoy depends a lot on various circumstances in their country, as well as their personal and family situation. </p>
<p>Even though the US is said to be the land of opportunity, those who are born with more resources have an easier path to leading a comfortable life than those who were born less endowed. Those who frequent CC tend to have had more resources available to them.</p>
<p>^ “What standard of living any of them are able to enjoy depends a lot on various circumstances in their country, as well as their personal and family situation.”</p>
<p>I highlighted country for a reason. Globalization seems to me ignores the existence of borders. Ignoring borders can be different things to different people.</p>