So I want to apply into the dietrich school and I know I need two subject tests. I got a 610 on my physics.Is that good enough to submit or should I try taking a different subject test?
It’s a little bit on the low side. Either retake it or choose another subject that will fulfill the Dietrich College’s requirements.
My D3 is interested in DC and possibly Tepper. Does anyone know what sort of Math II score CMU is looking for? She got a 740 which seems plenty high to me but it’s only 59th percentile.
@Mamelot In my opinion, a 740 exceeds the typical “standard,” but a higher score would always give your D3 a better stance competitively. On that note I should mention that Carnegie has lowered its acceptance rate by approximately 2% since 2015 (23% last year, 21% this year), and based off of what they told us at my Admitted Student Day (because they overenrolled during the 2015 year, the admissions office had to change up their process. As a result, the class of 2020 is their “most talented class yet,” with all accepted students sporting huge talent and passion in the hard sciences and/or in the arts.), that acceptance rate will probably be even lower this upcoming year. I say that because Carnegie overenrolled again this year (2016), so they’ll probably evaluate applications a little bit harder. Granted, that’s all speculation.
Point is, your D3 should do everything in her power to make herself stand out if she’s serious about CMU – which may or may not include raising her test scores (CMU is holistic in its admissions process).
Thanks MandomeLife - great information! The fact that they have overenrolled two years in a row definitely suggests they can be more aggressive on lowering future acceptance rates. Something to keep in mind.
The percentile table on that Math II test just tells me that it can’t be the most reliable way of weeding kids out (and as you say it’s a holistic process anyway). 20% are scoring 800! Obviously she’s up against STEM kids but she’s not applying to a STEM major. Her interest is economics.
I do have another question since you are well informed. What do you think about applying ED to increase the chances for admission? D3 really liked CMU when she visited so it’s her #1. She’s not the kind of kid who will just die if she doesn’t get in (thankfully!) and has some good backups so it will be all right. She’s just a smart, interesting kid so she’ll land somewhere good. Strategically, however, it may be wise to apply ED if she really wants to go there. I know that a couple of her schools of interest definitely accept a higher percentage from the ED list because it really demonstrates genuine commitment. She’ll have to decide exactly how much she likes it over her other schools of interest. I do think it’s important for her to be genuine and not “fake” interest that isn’t there. But I don’t want her to pass up this option if she really likes it - especially if by doing so helps her chances.
My advise is to apply ED only if she is 99.9% sure that CMU would be her first choice. My S applied ED after he had spent 3 weeks in their pre college summer camp and visited overnight. He was absolutely sure it was his first choice.
Also, we knew that we were not going to be given any financial aid but could afford it out of savings, present income and future earnings. You can get a good idea from the NPC what costs will be for you.
They have recently upped the scholarships but these are extremely competitive.
CMU ED’s policy is very different with their financial aid- read it carefully.
My D seriously considered CMU because it has a Decision Science major as well as some other very interesting majors in the social sciences. All of their social sciences are very quantitative. There is a QSS program that looks great too.
She ended up not applying to ED anywhere because we wanted her to consider all options and possible merit awards at other schools.
She is also interested in economics. My S has now graduated from CMU and although TBH it was hard on him and hard on us (paying full price is a hard pill to swallow) it’s all good now. Good luck on this very interesting journey with your D.
Actually CMU’s acceptance rate for 2015 was 16.2% and this year is 14.2%. Their acceptance rate is definitely lowering rapidly.
I’m not sure about your finances, but as for me (CMU 2020), CMU was definitely my most affordable option. Besides taking into account your financial need, etc. CMU apparently also calculates financial aid by how much they want a student. There have been instances where two students have both a 0 EFC and one received basically a full ride while another had to pay 20k. This isn’t to scare you, but definitely don’t count CMU out because it is notorious for its terrible FA!
As for applying ED, personally, I didn’t. If you are interested in more than one school, I’d apply RD just because CMU’s admissions process is quite unique. By applying RD, you are essentially applying to multiple different schools. CMU really accepts on a college to college basis. I was accepted as an ECE major in CIT, which is considered one of the hardest majors to get into, but I was also waitlisted by DC, which is CMU’s “easiest” college. It’s all about fit. I think CMU can really tell where you are suited for, so do well on your essays!
That wasn’t to say subject tests aren’t important, but if you don’t want to take more subject tests it’s alright. But if you know you can do better, definitely retake!
(Haha, I’m not really sure who I’m replying, but there might be some answers here? Hopefully. )
Thank you @spadeillusion and @goingnutsmom! Appreciate the very helpful advice! Financial is definitely an issue; however, we consider it an investment and realize the payoffs can be enormous. D3 is a likely National Merit Semifinalist but I’m not sure that will help her become more attractive to the Adcom. (CMU doesn’t provide national merit money). I’ve run the numbers and CMU doesn’t come out looking too good, although that may not be the whole story as @spadeillusion points out.
Frankly, she was very happy with UChicago till she visited CMU. UChicago would be a bit easier on our pocketbook as they not only provide a little bit of National Merit money but they also meet 100% of demonstrated need. (And they are Early Admission, not Early Decision). Of course the admission rate is even MORE competitive than CMU . . .
In any case we probably should not advise D3 to apply ED unless she’s absolutely sold on the school. The policy about not being able to compare FA packages is pretty typical for ED, I think, but it underscores just how expensive that level of commitment can be. D3 really liked CMU but she’d only visited once and, knowing her, I think another look-see at the schools she will be accepted to is prudent. She’s also a smart kid and it’s possible she might be looking at a few merit aid packages. We have been thinking along the same lines of advice that you gave your daughter, @goingnutsmom, and I’m glad I bounced the ED idea off the CC posts in order to feel better about our current strategy.
My understanding of the ED option st CMU is that it prioritizes the application for financial aid early on. So that you could get more fin aid- both financial and merit based because it seems that CMU places a lot of weight on interest and applying ED is a sure way of doing that. Not a guarantee that this is their strategy but it seems a strong possibility- read their ED financial aid section.
So applying ED at CMU has its definite advantages but the downside is that you will not be able to compare any other offers from any of the other schools. You close that door totally.
The poster above is correct- CMU offers scholarships and financial aid to lure in who they want. And that can be tricky because it depends on what class they want to build that year.
Interestingly, my D had the opposite reaction- once she visited UChicago, CMU lost favor. Each kid can be so different!
@Mamelot I can attest to @spadeillusion 's given situation. My friend and I both had an EFC of 0 as determined by the Student Aid Report, and we were both accepted to the School of Design during RD. His financial aid, specifically his gift aid (grants), totaled about 18k. Mine was drastically larger at aroubd 62k. With other aid such as loans and work study, Carnegie covered my entire cost of attendance. We both came to the conclusion that I had a better application package – I received a number of emails from a faculty member stating their regard for my portfolio.
That being said, what makes a more “wanted” applicant is more apparent with portfolio-based applications like in the College of Fine Arts at CMU. I’m not sure how they determine who to give those competitive scholarships (Presidential, Carnegie) to with other colleges since the application pool has so many talented students. Hopefully her National Merit status can give her a boost in Adcom’s eyes.
@Mamelot Oh and almost forgot to reply to your other post.
The ED pool can give your D some advantages, but she should always keep in mind that those accepted off of ED are talented. And you nailed it with the genuity idea. This is more of a personal belief, but I think Carnegie’s admission process truly pinpoints the students who are exceptionally passionate about their field. Many of the qualified appplicants know what they want to accomplish in their careers, and the necessary ,“smaller” steps that they need to reach in order to attain their goals. I’ll send you a PM with more about this because I don’t want this thread to go too off topic 
One more thing to consider when the deadline starts to come in sight is the quality of her application. If it’s October and for some reason her application isn’t the best it could be, it may be beneficial to consider taking the extra two months and applying RD if only to refine it to it’s highest degree. This may be more apt to students submitting a portfolio, as two months is ample amount of time to create and develop projects. But I definitely did not take those two months for granted with the other parts of my application. I think I edited my essays over twenty times to add in and remove content that I kept thinking was necessary/unnecesary. I also won some competitions in that time frame that I was able to add to my resume.
It’s a hard decision, definitely. But if your D is 100% prepared, I say go for it.
Thanks @MandomeLife and I totally hear you regarding those portfolio based applications. D3 is the first kid NOT to be applying to an art and design program. And I thought it would be easier with her LOL!
Look forward to reading your PM
@goingnutsmom one thing we really like about Univ. of Chicago is their “no loans” policy. We are fine with some loans for CMU but there are additional kids in the pipeline so we’d love to be able to get that COA down as much as possible. D3 is going to be the third in college (at the same time) so our EFC will decrease quite a bit as it is, but I’d love for hubby to be able to call up the schools and explain the present value of our future college-related outflows!!!
D3 will be working on essays when she returns from precollege in July. She is planning to meet the Nov. 1 deadline for most of her colleges of interest (Priority and Early Action). All those essays should give her plenty of practice should she decide to go RD for CMU.
Economics is math intense at schools like CMU. A 740 math score is not strong for a school like CMU. It is not surprising that a 740 is only the 54th %ile for Math 2 which is taken by the strongest math students. You’d expect a disproportionately high % of such students to get a perfect score on the Math 2-especially those applying to a school like CMU. Unlike the SATs, the % are what is important for the SAT2s. It is not true that any score in the 700s is reasonably good for the SAT2 whereas that might be true for the SATs. Disregard the numbers and look at %iles for the SAT2s.
@lostaccount - but isn’t the percentile representative of a different population of students?
(Edit - different population from those taking the SAT).
^ Sure, but I don’t know why people constantly cite that – that “different population” is in fact the kind of student who is your competition for selective schools, so you want to be near the top.
I’m thinking that a SAT II 740 is fine for economics but maybe not engineering or computer science at CMU. There are some stats buried in their website that you could probably dig up regarding this.
Thanks @goingnutsmom I’ll check the website again. I’ve found the mid-range scores for SAT and ACT, of course, and concorded D3’s new SAT math to those. She’s fine w/r/t her ACT. Her SAT math is right below the mid-range for accepted students at DC and Tepper. She’s not interested in engineering at CMU and her Math is right below the 25th% there so that would be a reach for sure.
Her subject math is consistent with her SAT and ACT math. She does well in math but is not at the top 99% - more like 96th or 97th for that population.
@bodangles, it’s actually the College Board that cites that the populations are different and warns against comparing percentiles across the tests. It’s a much smaller and highly selective population of testers (looking to get into the most selective schools, for the most part). It totally makes sense that she would score lower on a percentile basis. A perfect 800 is only 81st percentile which, of course, is WAY below her current SAT and ACT math percentiles. Had D3 taken Math I she would have done much better on a percentile basis but she felt that Math II was the appropriate test given her level of mathematics education - anything easier would have been gravy and ADCOMS know that. She knew she was up against STEM kids but she’s not planning a STEM major at this time. There’s very little chance she’d get into CMU engineering even if she were interested. She is where she is and her testing reflects that. Econ at all of her schools of interest is going to be quantitative and she’s looking forward to that. For some reason she was especially attracted to CMU’s environment - even over UChicago! That threw us for a loop!
I think she knows that if a 740 Math II doesn’t cut it for Dietrich she’s better off elsewhere. It’ll be an interesting year for her. Thankfully her strength is essays! We’ll see where she lands.
Thank you all!
Again, if she is really interested in CMU economics- a 740 SAT II is not going to keep her out. The CMU economics and other social sciences are fairly quantitative and a 740 demonstrates that she has was it would take to succeed there. The real question is to apply ED or not. That’s what needs to have a lot of thought into the decision.
@goingnutsmom that is going to be our next discussion. She is planning to give this a lot of thought when she gets back from precollege in July.