<p>Hi, My son got all subsidized loans in his initial financial aid packages and even 1 Perkins loan from one college. Later, when our gross income went over 100,000 instead of right under, they took it away and made it unsubsidized. They also took away his work study. With 3 kids and debt we weren't happy, but rolled with the punches. Then I talked to a number of people making more than we were, some with 1 child, and they all got subsidized loans and work studies. Even the woman I talked to at Sallie Mae said 95% of the loans she deals with are subsidized unless they are second loans. She told me to look into it this year but it's very hard when there isn't a definite criteria. We are going to pay the interest for my son so he just has the loan amount later, but it does add up for the student if you dont.
Does anyone have a clearer understanding of this? Thanks for any insights.</p>
<p>What we don't know is your financial need. Subsidized loans go to students who have financial need. In our experience last year, three schools awarded DD subsidized loans and one did not. DS got a subsidized loan. Some depends on the cost of attendance at the school relative to your EFC. When you amended your finaid forms to reflect your taxes, you must have gone over the threshold for a subsidized loan. NOW...DO NOT (and I mean this to be yelling) listen to stories about others having or not having subsidized vs. unsubed loans. While folks are very willing to tell you what they "got", they are usually quite lacking in divulging their real assets, income. Don't believe everything you hear from others re: finaid and comparisons. Every situation is different. Unless these other folks have the same income, same savings, same investments, same home equity, same mortgage payment, same college savings plans...well, you get the point....there is no way you can begin to compare their award with yours.</p>
<p>In most financial processes, there are threshholds. This applies to loans and taxes and aid. If you just miss a threshhold, you can end up paying much more than someone just an iota below you in income. It is impossible to compare your situation with others because of the many variables that go into the analysis. Few famiies are going to match your income to the dollar, or penny. Also things like the ages of the parents, the kids, assets, where your assets are sitting, income, all weigh heavily in threshholds that can make a diffeerence.<br>
However, since you have gone through the forms and know how they work,you can pinpoint threshholds, see where you are missing the boat, and possibly make some changes in your finances. If your home equity seems to high, it may behoove you to seek some appraissals that could lower it, for instance. You may want to change where you keep your assets. A roth ira might be something to think about. Maybe you should not be putting off that new roof, since that money sitting there is what puts you over an important threshold. Having no idea where you are, I am just putting out ideas, but there are often simple things a family can do if they are close to threshholds that can make a difference. Since you have other kids who may be going through this in the future, it would be a good idea to investigate how to lower your EFC, and know what things are likely examined in the PROFILE. Unless you got detailed analysis, sufficent to complete financial aid forms , from those other families, you have no where near what you need to get a clearer understanding of what is happening.</p>
<p>Hi, thanks for the advice but what baffled me was that we were so much under in income what others have. We have a second mortgage(so little equity now)we took to fix up our very old home, we have very little in savings and no assets, other homes, boats, etc. Our cars are old, the list goes on, but while I was sick, we did run up some credit cards we are slowly paying off. I paid for catholic school for my son because it kept him off any ADD drugs with the stricter classrooms and atmosphere or I might of saved more. The friends and students I have talked too, might have different assets, but all have more than we do, bigger homes, incomes, etc. The one student that is an only child of a fire chief and mom was head of a school, she got subsidized loans and couldn't understand how we couldn't either. Some were aquaintances but some were neighbors and nieces, so I do have a better idea of income, etc. How much could they hide?
Our efc was about 20,000 and the school was double that. The lower cost schools seemed more generous but in the world of college forms and financial aid, I learned nothing is concrete or always makes sense.</p>
<p>it isn't likely that if your EFC is $20K, you will be eligible for any Perkins loans
Ours was just about half of that , and D was only eligible for $1,000 Perkins
FAFSA/PROFILE doesn't allow for debt, except for a mortgage, not sure if that includes a 2nd mortgage.
EFC- also is not meant to be met through income alone.
It is met by a combination of loans, including home equity, income & savings.
Also- while my D Perkins was subsidized and she recieved teh maximum Stafford loan also subsidized, that amounted to well under $5,000.
That isn't really enough to make much more than a small dent in tuition costs for many private schools.
If you have enough income/savings to go ahead and cover the interest for your son, I would advise to go ahead and do so, and save frustration trying to figure out why he is being charged interest on $2,625.</p>
<p>hey can hide a lot. You just don't know unless you see their forms and compare them to yours. IF the numbers turn out the same or more, and you did not get the subsidized loans, then you know there is something wrong. We have friends whose two girls are both getting generous financial aid. They live a much richer life style than we do. Never could figure out where they were getting the money, since the mom is stay at home, and the dad's occupation is not one with big money involved, so the financial aid was consistent that way, but the lifestyle was not. Well, the younger one is hanging around with my son, and some comments that were made show that they enjoy generous gifts from both sides of the family, that the parents have never mentioned, (nor should they have). We have other friends who always are getting marvelous vacations paid, cars as gifts, summer programs, music lessons, opportunities for the kids all supplemented by parents. Considering the van they bought this year (which I so covet) was $40K +, that makes a big difference in their lives financially. I am willing to bet that their beautiful house was purchased with parental help. So if the kids get into colleges that are beyond the nuclear family's means, they will get financial aid, but there is money looming in the background that does not have to be reported if handled properly.</p>
<p>My husband grew up sort of that way too, and made out heavily in the financial aid game in his day. His mother had no money. They lived on the benificence of her parents. Her "job" was handling some of the realestate holdings, so she did have a meager income, and her house was owned by the grandparents who did not ask for rent. On paper, she was practically destitute. But was backed up by substantial money if push came to shove. There are degrees of this situation everywhere.</p>
<p>Yes, I did see that at my sons catholic school. Sometimes I would wonder why I was the only one bemoaning the tuition, fair share, etc. among what seemed like "peers". I found out a couple, as you have said, had very wealthy or frugal parents that saved and gave to their children very generously. No luck in my family that way, but I still had great parents. : )
My sister is the only one I know of 100%, that made much more and got subsidized loans plus work study but I will see this year. I will be very careful filling it out and will follow up where I can. Maybe mistakes are made on occasion on both sides.
The work study my son really misses because being on a small campus, they barely have enough jobs for them, forget non-workstudy students. You can't have a car for 2 years and it's not in a big city, so not much is nearby. But there's always the summer to work and help pay for books,etc. At least he wanted too, for that I am grateful!</p>
<p>Emeraldkity4, I was surprised we got a Perkins loan from Conn College, but was told my someone in admissions, we were on the "poorer side" at that school. Most pay full ride.</p>
<p>If it is your sister, maybe she will share the paperwork with you. You can then see line by line where you differ. Remember that the ages of you and your spouse come into play here too, though it is mainly income and assets. You may have just missed some important threshholds and cutoffs that she just made, which could make a difference.</p>
<p>My mother was one who always had her eye on what others had that she did not. My father was the exact opposite. I remember well one day when she was complaining or bemoaning someone's windfall or luxery purchase, when my father said, "For God's sake, keep your eye on your own pocket book. Don't go around trying to count other people's money". </p>
<p>I think it holds for other people's financial aid packages as well. You are just beating yourself on the head trying to figure out why someone got something you did not. Different colleges that say they use the same methodology will often come up with different cut offs, by counting some things differently from others. The same college will treat a more desirable student's statement differently from another, if the pressure is on for the kid to go there from within the school. There is some leeway that the financial aid officers have, but their job is not necessarily to give everyone the max they can get. I saw a quote somewhere once, that a college president said that he knew his financial aid office was doing a good job when everyone was unhappy with the awards but still coming to the school.</p>
<p>I doubt most kid at Conn Coll are paying full freight. I would guess that about half are on financial aid.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse, I like your Dads quote. I will look into more by talking to my sister again, but I wont expect miracles. I realize things are different at different schools, homes, etc.
Although Conn college does have a lot of wealthy students and their awards are lower than most, they did need males and maybe they thought my son would go there with the added Perkins. From what an admissions officer told my neighbor (neighbors a yale grad student and the officer worked at Wesleyan) "tweaking" can be done if they want too, but they don't always want too. If they have enough students (my son's school went 100 over what the average admission was) if they have limited income, they will be tight. If they want someone enough, they stretch the rules to get them in. The same way another poster said my son couldn't get a Perkins loan, he did. Same as real life in many ways. I think because my son was the first, I was so "green" and thought things were more cut and dried coming in. Boy was I wrong about that and this site helped a lot. With my next 2 coming up, I'll be much better prepared.</p>
<p>Perkins loans must have some institutional discretion. DD got one last year when she asked if any additional aid was available. Her original package included a grant and subsidized loan at this particular school. They added work study, and a Perkins Loan ($2500). I have no idea how we qualified for the Perkins Loan...none, and I even asked. They said we did. End of discussion. NOW keep in mind that another very similar college (similar in cost, demographics and even location) gave DD an UNsubsidized stafford loan and a similar amount in grant money. When she inquired there (two days later...) about any possiblilities of increased aid (and she HAD the letter from school #1 adding Perkins and Work Study...and the Subsidized loan), their finaid officer said NO We do not adjust finaid offers. These two colleges very often have applicants who apply to both places. We thought the whole thing odd. DD is a student at the first school.</p>
<p>There is some discretion even in government money, though I have no idea how it works. That's why it pays to shop around when you want/need financial aid. Unfortunately, another dimension in financial aid is that some school do play degrees of "bait and switch". As a rule, first year awards tend to be the most generous as there is a degree of courting going on at that time. Also most schools want students to take an increasing amount of the cost burden each year. That may be some of what you are experienceing this year.</p>
<p>Im still surprised at students being awarded Perkins loans without exceptional financial need.
[quote]
Federal Perkins Loans</p>
<p>These loans are offered to students who demonstrate the greatest financial need; Federal Pell Grant recipients get top priority. You can be enrolled full time or part time. Each school participating in the program receives a certain amount of Perkins funds each year from the U.S. Department of Education. When all those funds are used for that award year, no more Perkins Loans can be made for that year. You repay these loans to your school.
[/quote]
<p>The first time I heard about "bait and switch" was from the grad student. He having gone through the ranks, heard of it a bit. When he heard how much my son got in scholarship and grants, he said, go with knowing you can pay the part with the scholarship, but don't count on the grant. He was right.
When I told him about another poster that had her money changed by about 10,000 for a 4000.00 increase in income, he said again, it didn't surprise him.His friend who worked at Wesleyan said they "didn't have too" they wanted too. More money for other freshman. And although it sounds "underhanded", some colleges will woo certain students with money for race, sex, etc. and then get their stats and lessen the money. If they leave, so be it. My son said he heard his school loses a lot sophomore year, not because they didn't love the school, but because of money. I hope he isn't one of them, but I will be prepared with other offers from safeties we liked. It's hard finding transfer money but it does exist.</p>
<p>
[quote]
some colleges will woo certain students with money for race, sex, etc. and then get their stats and lessen the money
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That is just awful.</p>
<p>Unfortunately that happens at private high schools too. A couple of students that were friends with my son got great scholarships at private schools that were about 20,000 a year when they graduated 8th grade. One was bi-racial and one was hispanic. (1 male, 1 female) One mom said she only had to pay what she paid at his catholic school they year before (2,800) Boy did that change, by junior year she was begging him go public, with 12,000 being too hard on her. Another Dad said a local girls catholic high school always offers a lot of money to freshman but it never is guaranteed throughout the 4 years. He went from 2,000 to 8,000 which for some isn't a big jump, but for others, it is. She ended up going public junior year, (reluctantly) but getting into great colleges and taking free class's at Yale after school senior year. So, things work out, but I guess the game playing by the administration shouldn't be that surprising. The rankings make them want to have certain things and they try to get what they want, but I don't believe they all do it to the same degree or should be lumped together.</p>
<p>Emerald, the OP did say that her son's school considered them to demonstrate the greatest financial need IN THEIR SCHOOL AT THAT TIME. Some schools do not have many Pell grant recipients, so if they have the money sitting there, they'll give to others. It just says that Pell grant recipients get top priority, not that they are the only ones to get the money. At a school with a lot of Pell Grant kids, you would not likely get any Perkins money. It appears that other than that stipulation, the school is free to give the loans to whomever they want to have them. They just don't get any more when they are dispensed.</p>
<p>Yeah, Debruns, I think you got a taste of the old bait and switch from your school. Hopefully not the whole meal. As I said earlier, schools do tend to be less generous to their ongoing students than to the freshmen they are wooing. There should be info on how grant/loans/aid change year to year, so the worst offenders are outed and we have that info to consider when choosing a school.</p>
<p>I agree cptofthehouse, I learned this fall by going on "live journal" and asking students how many leave, why, etc. and they were very helpful. My son hears from "cafteteria talk" but most gets lost on the way and isn't passed on. Even when some sites say the retention rate of a school is low, they don't say why. Some assume they left because they hated it, grades, etc. but that is not what might of been the final straw.
When I mentioned the richer students at Conn College, that's what I meant, that the number that needed Perkins were very low so they could give it to us, although we are not "poor" to most.</p>
<p><a href="http://depts.drew.edu/research/cds2.html%5B/url%5D">http://depts.drew.edu/research/cds2.html</a></p>
<p>This shows the difference in aid between freshman year and aid for other undergraduate years. Just click "financial aid".</p>