Suggested I post here

Parent Cafe
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<p>You got onto a mailing list because you met some minimum score in standardized testing and those colleges told Collegeboard that they wanted to buy the names of every kid who got above an X. Every single kid in the country who got that minimum level of score got the same level. Do NOT think that this is “individualized” attention or indicative of safety status in the least. It is junk mail on the same level as any other junk mail you may receive from anyone else – bought on the basis of some demographic or criteria that the mailer was interested in.</p>

<p>As for Mizzou, while it is not one of my favorite schools for a host of reasons, I know plenty of Mizzou grads who have done quite well for themselves.</p>

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There’s really no need to attempt to make such broad, derogatory implications. Candor is fine; ignorant presuppositions are not. I will have no need for financial aid. For whatever reason, you seem to be under the impression that my unsophistacted self must prance around with a southern drawl, in overalls, whilst herding pigs. This is simply not the case. A rural area does not denote a poor area - something I would urge you to keep in mind. Philly is not exactly the Essex of America either. I sincerely hope you are not a parent…</p>

<p>So, moving on, thanks to all the other helpful advice I’ve tried to whittle down the results to more realistic levels, focusing largely on LACs (this is based solely on academics, location and other factors notwithstanding). Please bear in mind, though, that I’m not familiar with where you all are receiving your admission statistics from, so I’m more or less prodding my way along. Thoughts?</p>

<p>Bard College
Trinity College
Connecticut College
Wabash
Tufts
William and Mary
Mizzou (ugh…)
Yeshiva</p>

<p>How did I do? Like I said, I’m kind of shooting blind here.</p>

<p>EDIT: Regarding Naviance; No, my school did not have it. I’m not even familiar with what the program is.</p>

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<p>There are several ways to get these stats for some, but not all, schools.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>IPEDS: [The</a> Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System - Home Page](<a href=“http://nces.ed.gov/IPEDS/]The”>IPEDS)</p></li>
<li><p>google Common Data Set and the name of the school</p></li>
<li><p>go onto the web site of the school and look under Institutional Research</p></li>
</ol>

<p>PS I don’t think any poster meant to insult you. Most people do not know the ins and outs of how to find out information about schools, or how mailing lists are assembled, etc. That is what the poster meant by “unsophisticated”.</p>

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<p>^^ Ugh, I’m outta here.</p>

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<p>WOW! JHS is a parent, and a very helpful parent at that.JHS was just saying exactly the same thing you just did in your last line. It will make some of us think twice about offering advice to you.
It seems it already has.</p>

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<p>William and Mary will be a VERY tough admit for you as an OOS student and I would not even try at UVA. I would drop Tufts from your list as well.</p>

<p>You need to have a few matches which are going to be mid tier publics (not top 50) to be safe.</p>

<p>It is very important to remember that the real definition of a “safety” school is a school you would be happy attending if all else fails. You can always have a plan B to do well your first (and possibly second) year at that school and look to transfer to a higher profile school when the admissions folks AREN’T looking at your HS record as their sole source of information.</p>

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<p>“Unsophisticated” has negative connotations, so the OP was not coming from a position that was totally unwarranted. Some other people said things in ways that weren’t as nice as they could have been, and this is the only thing the OP pulled out…meaning he/she is not generally combative. But since JHS did not say the word in a truly bad spirit (I hope not) and the OP was certainly acting rash, I am sure they can forgive each other and get on with it :).</p>

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<p>Thoughts</p>

<p>Bard: tiny, in the woods, no campus and nothing within half an hour, new cool science building, Gehry design performing arts center, serious senior thesis requirement and interesting (and serious) approach to academics, walks were dangerously icy in February.</p>

<p>Tufts: small univeristy, we liked it’s suburban location, great food, good engineering (girl we know loves it there) and international relations, well manicured campus (in April not February!), very selective</p>

<p>Yeshiva: men and women don’t even get the same list of majors [Yeshiva</a> University | Academic Calendar](<a href=“http://www.yu.edu/pos/page.aspx?id=2546&ekmensel=15074e5e_2438_2440_btnlink]Yeshiva”>http://www.yu.edu/pos/page.aspx?id=2546&ekmensel=15074e5e_2438_2440_btnlink) Great if you want to seriously study Torah along side more traditional college offerings.</p>

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<p>OP - it should be easy to find info about these schools from their own webpages or the links provided by midmo. Princeton Review also has some basic stats, too. </p>

<p>If a school is a “match,” you are slightly above average in all areas necessary (GPA wise, SAT wise, etc.) and they are not super selective (i.e. a school with a 10% acceptance rate is going to be a crapshoot for anyone, even those with really good stats). I say above average, because you have to count for athletes/special circumstances/URMs/etc.</p>

<p>If a school is a “safety,” you are quite above average in all of the necessary requirements and a decent number of students is admitted.</p>

<p>Now, determining matches and safeties would be difficult for anyone in your shoes with the special circumstances as they are surrounding your GPA. It is quite possible that a school which your GPA is below average for may be a “safety” because the circumstances are good enough and your SAT score is SO high that it makes the GPA irrelevant. So, use a bit of reasoning here. How much better is your SAT score than the average accepted students’? How much worse is your GPA? </p>

<p>In your case it is especially important to apply to a wide range of selectivities, since you just don’t know how they’re gonna look at you, or if your excuse for your grades will be enough (though since you DO know the circumstances, maybe you can decide for yourself whether an admissions counseler - who has heard it all - will take pity on you ;)). </p>

<p>A “reach” is a school in which you are significantly below the avg. in admitted stats in any area.</p>

<p>IF you can still devote a lot of time to your aps, I would encourage you to apply to more than usual (for example, I completed 4 applications total, and I had some friends that did 10!). But this is very important - don’t skimp on any of the apps. What’s more important is putting a lot of time into each one.</p>

<p>My guess is you like LACs and that makes it even harder :/. State schools will typically accept a wide variety of kids and be generally decent. That is, easier to get into for better quality. Whereas the difference between a LAC “reach” and a LAC “safety” will be a bigger drop in quality…</p>

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<p>It’s not an equation. Penn Lover was asking for advice. JHS and others were providing it gratis, free and at no cost to the OP, only to have him snarl back. Nice? NOT. Penn Lover does not seem to know the meaning of unsophisticated (which means in this instance the same thing as flying blind.").
As parents we would not be doing our duty (even if only self-imposed in this case) if we did not provide candid assessment of an OP’s chances and choices. Also, a lesson in good manners.</p>

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<p>Good luck with the college application process, and consider the College Confidential recommendation “Build your list from the bottom up.” Find a few good safeties you love, then some matches you love, then some reaches you love. Apply to them all. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>I don’t want to start a fight, so I’m just gonna say a couple things that I have noticed about the parent’s board and then back off.</p>

<ol>
<li>They give great and sophisticated advice. They use good grammar. It’s very nice.</li>
<li>Some parents can say things in a rude (intentionally or not) way and feel entitled to doing so because “they were asked for advice.” Asking for advice does not mean one is asking to be insulted, and one has a right to defend himself/herself in such a case.</li>
<li>It’s true that the defense goes overboard sometimes, lowering the defender to the position of the one they are defending against in the first place.</li>
</ol>

<p>Now, this doesn’t apply to JHS - necessarily - since I think what occurred was just a misunderstanding. But looking at some of the other posts (even my own), I have noticed that (and maybe it’s the nature of the internet), things get said a little harsher than they need to be said, especially if someone is coming and asking (nicely) for advice.</p>

<p>You CANNOT argue that “unsophisticated” has a negative connotation, despite its denotation. It is a little strange and archaic to call someone unsophisticated in a conversational venue such as this message board, though perhaps technically admissable. So I would ask that you truly put yourself in the OP’s shoes and acknowledge that the way he reacted was not so terrible, considering his perceptions, though it would be nice if he was not so rash in the future.</p>

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<p>You need to research more schools. Buy one of those huge guidebooks. It is fine to apply to schools like Penn or UVA or W&M. However, you should not expect to get in.</p>

<p>You should apply to a school (or two) where you are confident you will get in and where you will enjoy yourself. If you want a “better” school, you can transfer after 1 or 2 years at your first school. This means schools that have admitted students GPAs around 3.0. It is certainly possibly that a top school will accept you, as you are a unique situation, but if you only apply to those, you are setting yourself up for failure.</p>

<p>Even if you’re GPA was a 3.8 for all 4 years, and the rest of your application was the same, I still think you would have a less than 50% chance for admissions at Haverford, Duke, Rice, Penn, UVA, Tufts, and W&M.</p>

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<p>A couple of questions that might enable people here to give you more focused advice:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>As someone mentioned earlier, the wording of your original post implies that you have already graduated from high school but are not attending college this year. Is this correct? If so, what are you doing instead? </p></li>
<li><p>Would you be willing to share the circumstances that led to your low GPA in your first two years of high school? Admissions offices are likely to respond differently to different types of situations.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Also, a suggestion: Would you be willing to consider starting your college education at a community college, with the intent of transferring to a four-year institution after a year or two? I suggest this because if you can keep up the solid academic record you have established in the last half of high school, you might be more attractive to colleges as a transfer candidate than a freshman candidate. </p>

<p>If you don’t like the commuter atmosphere of community colleges, you could also consider starting your college education in one of the less selective regional colleges within your state university system, with the hope of transferring to the state flagship institution halfway through. For example, if you were in my state of Maryland, I don’t think you would have any hope of getting into our flagship, the University of Maryland at College Park, with that GPA. But you would have a decent chance at one of our less selective state universities, such as Towson, Salisbury, or Frostburg, and if you kept up your current level of academic achievement, you would be a viable candidate for transfer to UMCP later on.</p>

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<p>Terrible? No. Rude? Absolutely.The OP reacted specifically to JHS, even suggesting that he was not a parent.
Unsophisticated has negative connotations. The same connotations as “flying blind.” If the OP were more knowledgeable, he would not be asking questions on the Parents’ Forum. There is no reason to feel ashamed about being unsophistacted, but rudeness is not acceptable.
Making excuses for the OP is enabling behavior.
I was fully intending to respond to the original query when I came across the OP’s response to JHS. This will be my contribution to his education.</p>

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<p>This student doesn’t need to start his college career at a community college, in my opinion. He has stated that finances are not an issue. Also, I’m hoping his posts also mean that his CURRENT grades are more reflective of what he CAN do than his fresh/soph grades. That being the case, there are plenty of four year residential colleges where he would be very welcome. BUT I don’t think the Ivies or equivalents are amongst them (unless there is a very compelling REASON for those lower fresh/soph grades). Even so…those schools only accept less than 20% of students who apply…so the odds are actually stacked against almost EVERYONE who applies.</p>

<p>Which “Trinity” college are you asking about, OP…if it’s San Antonio, I think that would be a good match school for you.</p>

<p>I think Tufts will be a “tough admit” as will William and Mary as an OOS student.</p>

<p>Why did you put Yeshiva University on your list? I think you need to read a lot more about that school and its culture before including it.</p>

<p>Would you consider a school like Vassar? It’s not a guaranteed admit for you (because of that GPA…as you know)…but your SAT is very good for that school. They have far less male applicants and this could be helpful to you. </p>

<p>I’m sort of confused about what you want in a college. Your lists are all over the place…rural, urban, suburban, large, small, etc.</p>

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<p>Please…tell me what this “unique situation” is. There are MANY students who don’t do as well during their freshman/sophomore years of high school where most courses are required…and no choice is given to the students. MANY others do better during the last couple of years where they get a CHOICE about which English, Science, History course to take (don’t like American History…then take Modern Euro…want something different for English…then take Shakespeare…physics not your thing…then take anatomy/physiology).</p>

<p>And lots of kids just “wake up” when they see their lower grades and realize they need to make a change to achieve college goals. This is not UNIQUE unless there is a unique reason for this having happened to the OP.</p>

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<p>You are simply on a mailing list. They are sending out info to 10,000-20,000 (maybe more) students based on info you filled out when you took the SAT or PSAT. In some instances the mailings are NOT even based on your SAT scores. Beware, these come from the marketing department. You currently are “nobody” to them. I have seen students with SATs of 1700/2400 get the same mailings, saying they are PERFECT for a school they have no shot at. Really. Your quote says to many that you are naive about the admissions process. You are clearly intelligent. But thinking your “in” based on mailing that say “your perfect for us” is why we are trying to help you understand the process. Some are not going to sugar coat it one bit</p>

<p>We are just trying to help so that you will understand the process.</p>

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<p>I think the OP didn’t understand that the unsophisticated reference was meant to refer to the fact that at 18 he or she just isn’t that knowledgeable about the college search. I think he or she read something more personal into it. The OP had posted that he/she lived in a rural area in Missouri. Unless you are from one of the “flyover states” I don’t think you can understand. As the OP himself pointed out, he is not a overall wearing hick that chases pigs. I think that might be where he was coming from. In any event, I think we can all agree that the OP doesn’t know that much about the college search process and that is why he/she posted looking for advice from parents who have more knowledge and expertise in that area.</p>

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<p>Ooof! I’m really sorry I used the word “unsophisticated”. I certainly didn’t intend it as an insult, a comment about Missouri, or anything like that. My basis was the OP’s over-estimating his likelihood of admission at a couple of colleges based on mass mailings he had received from them. There’s nothing immoral or evil about being unsophisticated – in fact, as parents, most of us would probably love to dial our kids’ sophistication down a few notches – but it can be dangerous if it leads to planning based on unrealistic assumptions. </p>

<p>Not needing financial aid will help the OP considerably. It opens up a place like Bard, that could be a very good fit based on his interests. It’s exactly the sort of LAC I was thinking about, except for his comment about not wanting to be in a rural, isolated place. (Bard is sort of a weird rural, isolated place, since it’s relatively easy to visit NYC from there.) Trinity is another serious possible match. I was also thinking about suggesting Sarah Lawrence, Bennington, Wheaton (MA), Bates, Connecticut College, Goucher, Kalamazoo, Kenyon, Beloit . . . </p>

<p>I would not discourage the OP from applying to a place like Tufts. I see him not as a B- student with high test scores, but as an A- student with consistent test scores and something significant and potentially negative to explain on his record. If colleges see him that way, and he does a good job with the explanation part, he would have a perfectly decent shot at Tufts. His problem isn’t that he has no chance at more selective colleges (except for the public ones like UVa); it’s that he also needs to identify realistic matches and at least one safety, and for that he needs to think like a smart B- student.</p>