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Parent Cafe
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<ol>
<li><p>HYP admissions: I’ve seen a lot of kids get into HYP in the last few years, among my children’s cohort. Only one of them has had anything approaching “national distinction”. All of them were great, among the best students at very strong schools, students whom their peers really respected. Most were pretty much only that – their ECs were basically normal ECs for smart, engaged kids whose primary focus was learning. Some were run-the-world types; one was an organize-the-demonstration type. Of course, I have also seen a lot of similar kids not be accepted at some combination of HYP, too. My general sense is that they accept great kids, some of whom are absolutely the best candidates available, and others of whom are simply great kids who are not necessarily distinguishable from other great kids (who generally find perfectly great colleges to attend, too).</p></li>
<li><p>The new list: It’s much more realistic, but I’m still not certain it has a safety. Maybe Minnesota or Occidental? I don’t know enough about them. CMC, Hamilton, and Penn (Middlebury, too) are clearly reaches, Macalaster a reachy match, maybe Conn College is a match. He’s on the right track, though. Missouri will be a selling point at any of them except Penn.</p></li>
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<p>I’m very high on Hamilton these days because my nephew just finished a dream career there – it couldn’t have been better for him. But I have to warn Penn Lover that it’s as isolated as anywhere in the Northeast can be. </p>

<p>A few other ideas:</p>

<p>Pitzer and Hampshire – two roll-your-own 60s institutions that are part of attractive, functioning consortia (Claremont Colleges and Amherst 5 Colleges, respectively), are much less competitive for admission than others (Pomona, CMC, Amherst), but really let students take advantage of the full consortium resources to build their own curriculum. Amherst MA is much livelier than Clinton NY or Middlebury VT.</p>

<p>Reed – Another reach, but a place that will make individualized judgments and take risks, and a really intellectual tone, produces lots of lawyers. Plus urban and pretty.</p>

<p>American or GWU – Washington DC. Hotbed of poli sci and pre-law. You have to fight for the great internships, but they are right on your doorstep.</p>

<p>Franklin & Marshall – a lot like Hamilton, I think, but a little less popular, and thus more forgiving admissions-wise. Test scores will count for a lot. Energetic president, rising stock. Some strong poli sci.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the suggestions.</p>

<p>I’m not sure about Hampshire. It seems a little… I don’t know. Whimsicle in its approach to courses. I’m not a big fan of the completely unguided “experimental” college stuff. Pitzer looks nice – it’s great that it’s part of the Claremont McKenna consortium – but I’m a little concerned about the number of people that complain about the high levels of drug use. I don’t think I really want to be around that. However, it apparently has a great study abroad program, which, as a language freak, is something I would love. Perhaps Harvey Mudd would be a happy medium?</p>

<p>Reed looks very good. =] Maybe a little reachy?</p>

<p>I don’t think I’m really interested in American. I’ve been reading that it has some sort of religious affiliation, which isn’t my thing. George Washington, on the other hand, looks amazing. Perfect metropolitan setting, and as you said an excellent place to study my two intended majors. Would you guys consider that a reach?</p>

<p>I think F&M looks nice, too. I really like Pennsylvania so that’s always a plus!</p>

<p>Colby college is another one I just started looking at. While it is in main (even more Canadian than Vermont!!!) it’s only 15 minutes from the capital, so that makes it easier to manage. It’s also SAT optional.</p>

<p>Still liking Occidental, also.</p>

<p>Finally, other than Mizzou, do you guys have any safety suggestions? I’m not really sure where a reasonable starting point would be. I mean, I guess I could go check USN&WR and look at some of the lower ranked colleges.</p>

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<p>I’m not trying to be overly negative by any means, but I still think the OP’s list is more than a little ambitious. I mean, Connecticut College and Claremount with a 2.75 seems more than a bit reachy. Even Occidential might be a bit tough with that GPA. While the OP does have very good test scores, they aren’t, in the realm of high-end college admissions (which all of the OP’s schools ARE), amazing, nor are his ECs from what he posted (with the possible exception of the government lobbying). </p>

<p>To illustrate, I had an ACT one point lower (32; about a 2180 SAT equivalent), a 4.0 UW GPA, quite solid ECs (though nothing national), and interesting life circumstances, and I still would have considered Claremount a reach and most others on his new list reach-y matches or reaches. Like others have said, I think a lot will depend on the OP’s explanation of his low grades and how he can “spin” it in an essay. I do think he still needs to look a notch or so lower and find a couple of more solid matches and/or a “safe” safety that he he really loves.</p>

<p>On that note, OP, if you are considering grad school for psych you may want to look at some more universities in additional to LACs. While the LACs on your list are all solid, many smaller schools lack significant and/or varied research/publication opportunities for psych undergrads, which is a–if not the–key criterion for getting into psych grad schools. Many LACs offer solid opportunities in these areas, of course, and many students coming from them do very well in the admissions process, but you should investigate research opportunities and departments thoroughly, especially at non-research universities.</p>

<p>Just my $.02.</p>

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<p>Penn Lover- I saw your list of APs, but did you list your scores on those exams? Without knowing those, let it suffice to say that there is a huge difference between a score of 2 and a score of 5. May I suggest that you take a look at Marlboro College in Vermont? The campus is in an isolated location but it’s also 2 hours from Boston and an easy trip to NYC and Philadelphia. They are extremely small and have many opportunities to develop a curriculum that suits your needs. Because of their size, you are in individual and they will be there to talk to you so that you can explain your GPA situation and talk up your strong points! The school is always on the lists of “top” colleges and it’s uniqueness certainly merits a look.</p>

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<p>I’m interested in Psychology – even Sociology to an extent – but it’s not incredibly important to me, i.e. I doubt I would major/minor in it.</p>

<p>Do you have any thoughts on George Washington University? The more I read about it, the more I like it!</p>

<p>EDIT: I’ll look into Marlboro; thanks. As far as AP scores, I don’t recall the exact ones for each specific class. I know I didn’t get below a 4 in any of them. I believe 5s in the English/Foreign language class, 4 in Government, 4 in Bio, not sure about the others.</p>

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<p>I visited Marlboro once and I came away very impressed. The college is located near Putney, VT which is a major artistic area (also lots of artisanal cheese-making in the area) and it hosts the Marlboro Music festival every summer. The college is located on a former farm and some of the classes are literally held in former farm buildings. I was told that most seniors go away to do research for their thesis. I believe it has about 300 students, so each application probably is looked at very carefully. Someone with the OP’s language skills would be very appealing. I don’t know about psych or government, however.
George Washington is worth looking into (it is also quite expensive); I would also suggest looking at American, also in D.C.</p>

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<p>Why are you looking at SAT optional schools, Penn lover? Your SAT scores are your STRENGTH.</p>

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<p>Some other posters have suggested that I look at SAT optional schools because they’re more apt to focus on individual aspects of a student, as opposed to just crunching numbers. I’d still send in my scores, though! =]</p>

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<p>Thumper:</p>

<p>I suggested he look at SAT-optional schools and submit his scores. These are schools that look very carefully at applications. Others may just use the combined GPA and SAT to weed out applicants–which would be a shame since the OP has great scores and has studied some very interesting subjects.</p>

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<p>Definitely take a look at Colby - although to be clear it is rural. At my sons’ high school, this was a solid safety for boys with very high SAT scores, and it’s a great school. I don’t know how your grades will be viewed. Write great essays, and visit if you can. Colby tracks interest, and interviews count.</p>

<p>I think GWU will be intrigued by high scores too.</p>

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<p>Marlboro would be an excellent choice and I specifically mentioned it because they are known to treat each student as an individual, with strengths AND weaknessnesses and attempt to accomodate both. Seniors do travel the world for their thesis, which is why, at any given time, so few students are in residence. The campus is run by Town Meeting, common in New England, but I believe they are the only school to self-govern in such a manner and most, if not all, of the faculty live in housing right on school grounds. My eldest son took courses in everything from Astronomy to Irish Literature and one student took on the construction of an observatory for his project and it remains to this day. Psych was one of their most popular departments, but I can’t vouch for what is best/strongest now. It is most definitely a school one must visit though- the full scope and feel of the campus can not be appreciated from a web site or view book.
D has 2 friends who will be attending George Washington this fall and although an excellent school, it is “high pressure” and large- one will be a Poli Sci major and the other will be studying business.</p>

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<p>Agreed OP needs to find schools that will review the WHOLE application and not focus on just grades. BUT how can you be sure that an SAT optional school won’t first look at those grades and THEN wonder why the rest of the student profile looks the way it does. After all…they supposedly don’t care about the SATs but care more about the other aspects of the application…including GPA.</p>

<p>This OP needs to have a VERY balanced list. Right now, I still see his/her list as being a bit “top heavy”. </p>

<p>I like the mantras “love thy safety” and “build your list from the bottom UP”…in other words pick your safety schools FIRST and go from there. </p>

<p>Right now, I don’t see anything on the OPs list that I would say is a “sure thing”. That needs to be found.</p>

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<p>I think all schools tend to look at GPA before scores, not just the test optional schools. I do believe that the test-optional schools are more willing to give another look at quirky applications, which this one really is. The string of 4s and perhaps 5s on APs should be really helpful in counterbalancing the low GPA. Penn Lover should send in a copy of the official score report, not just self-report the scores. It will show that the low GPA in his first two years were not indicative of his academic strength. But first, he has to make it into the pile of possible admits.</p>

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<p>

I was about to suggest Reed. They used to overlook low GPAs and take risk with students with high scores. Reed became more popular (and thus more competitive) in recent years, but it definitely is worth a try. And the location is great.</p>

<p>I don’t think American U has any religious affiliation (maybe you are confusing it with Georgetown?). It could be a good option, as well as George Washington.</p>

<p>As for safeties, I think you should apply to some rolling admissions schools, and see how it goes. Pitt (urban), UIUC(not so urban, but a college town) might accept you. I’d also strongly advise to apply to Mizzou - I am pretty sure you will get in, and if it turns out to be your best or only option, it is not that bad. If you do well there, you can always transfer after a year.</p>

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<p>Colby is pretty rural (none of the “Big Three” in Maine are in particularly urban locations, relatively speaking, but Colby is the most removed of the three). Augusta is the capital, but isn’t as lively as many other state capitals - Portland is the “big” city in Maine and Colby is the furthest from it amongst the three LACs in Maine (Bates, Bowdoin, Colby). It is a <em>fantastic</em> school though, and one that would evaluate your application holistically – I was accepted there, and though I ended up at Bates, Colby was a close second. Having high scores will be a boon at either Bates or Colby and both (from my experience) are honest about their holistic admissions approach.</p>

<p>DEFINITELY interview at every school if you can and many of the smaller schools, including Colby, track interest. Is it possible for you to visit? If so, definitely do so. </p>

<p>I agree though, that Colby is not a safety. I would add at least one <em>surefire</em> 100% you will get in type school – one that you like! One that you would be happy going to! You want to have a back up plan if your reaches and matches don’t work out.</p>

<p>ETA: If you don’t like the Hampshire “attitude”, I don’t know how you’ll feel about Reed – also a great school, also pretty “hippy” – which is NOT the case at some of the other schools you mention including Middlebury and Colby.</p>

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<p>A couple of comments on a few odd things you said about a couple of the colleges (I dearly hope I’m not missing sarcasm).</p>

<p>Wheaton - You said that you didn’t want to look into American University because of the religious affiliation. Wheaton is a pretty conservative Christian college. Great school, but if you aren’t at least looking into exploring Christianity, you will not be happy at Wheaton.</p>

<p>Harvey Mudd (and the other Claremonts) - You asked if perhaps Mudd would be a “happy medium”. Mudd is an engineering/science school. Not at all what you’re looking for. CMC is definitely a better fit for you major-wise, and as a CMC student you would have access to some of Pomona’s language resources (Such as a dining hall where you aren’t allowed to speak English), though not their study abroad program (I don’t think CMCs study abroad program is too shoddy though). If you don’t like unstructured programs, then you definitely should stay away from Pitzer. A friend of mine knows someone there who’s majoring in “The Sky” (Ok, so its a little more legit when you actually hear him describe what that means, but its still a little crazy). Pitzer may be the most well-known of the 5Cs for drug use, but I don’t know how much of that is stereotype and how much is true. I’m certain that you could find friends at Pitzer with no interest in drugs. I haven’t yet run across any drugs/users during my frequent walks across the Pitzer campus, but I’m horribly clueless so that probably doesn’t count for much.</p>

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<p>There are many Wheaton colleges. The one that I believe was being suggested is located in Norton, MA, half-way between Providence and Boston. It started out as a female seminary but has welcome men since 1987. I do not believe it emphasizes its religious origins (unlike Wheaton in IL).</p>

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<p>Yeah, I suggested Wheaton (MA) too, before, although I don’t know very much about it. I second Colby as well, if you are willing to deal with the location. It is gorgeous, and I know for a fact that you can get excellent political science courses there, as well as truly holistic admissions.</p>

<p>Hampshire / Pitzer: You don’t have to major in “The Sky” just because others do things like that. You can design your own curriculum to look like the University of Chicago if you want.</p>

<p>American / GWU: I’m certain that American is not religiously affiliated. GWU seems to be winning the current popularity contest – probably for the reasons that you are more attracted to it – but that means that American is a less iffy application for you.</p>

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<p>Yes, I think American was being confused with Georgetown.
I don’t know about Pitzer, but an acquaintance of my S transferred out of Hampshire. The camel that broke the camel’s back was when a guest lecturer in one of her international relations class was brought in and spoke of the importance of “aura” to promoting world peace! Claremont McKenna, however, has a reputation for being conservative, so it should balance out Pitzer. S’s friend found Amherst much more to her liking.</p>

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<p>A few years ago Colby waitlisted the son of a friend of mine. He had perfect SAT scores, but very mixed grades (and not just freshman and sophomore year grades). He got in off the waitlist and liked it very much. His younger brother is at Wheaton (MA) and loves it. There’s a big emphasis on service, but I don’t believe it’s religious at all. (The kids are half Catholic, half Jewish.)</p>

<p>American is the easiest of the three DC colleges to get into and definitely not religious. My mother went to many colleges, but it’s the one she finally got her BA from. American is in a more residential neighborhood than GW.</p>