Schools that offer coops are great for finding out if the career is a fit, but for many engineering disciplines they are hard to get before the end of sophomore year so at that point you’re already in kinda deep if you don’t like it (although better to switch before graduating!) I do know one person who did a summer internship at a well-known EE company and found engineering wasn’t a great fit; his manager liked him, though, and helped him get a job in the marketing dept. after college.
Incidentally its worth asking at all the schools you consider whether it is feasible to take a semester off for a coop. Schools that emphasize them will have no problem, but taking 6 mos off may cost you an extra year of college at some schools if you get off-track. Coops, even at very prestigious companies, are usually far easier to get then internships; lots of kids want a high-paying summer job, far fewer are willing to take 6 mos off from school.
@momofsenior1 has some good ideas. And he can start networking now to talk to real-world ChemE’s about what their job is like; do you have relatives or friends in the field he can talk to? Barring that, he can try simply contacting people in your area. LinkedIn is your friend here. It used to be hard to call a company and get past the switchboard but now he can do a quick search and come up with people he can email directly! Explaining that he is a HS student considering the field as a career and asking to meet for coffee, I think he’ll find plenty of people are willing to talk to him. He should read a book like “What Color is Your Parachute” to get an idea of what kind of questions to ask during informational interviewing.
Purdue University enrolls all engineering students into their First Year Engineering Program. It requires a student take FYE courses both semesters freshman year. The first course reviews each of the engineering programs offered at Purdue and teaches working in group settings. Second semester is about programming required for engineering and more group projects. During the second semester the student will choose their top program choices. Chemical Engineering usually requires a 3.2 to be guaranteed entry into the program. Purdue also offers 3 and 5 term coop opportunities. The five term begins either summer of freshman year or fall of their sophomore year.
I think someone interested in Chem E could probably switch to either a Chemistry or Physics major with minimal impact to their college experience. Most of the basic courses would be the same for either the FYE program or the college of Science. Once past the first year the courses will be different. OChem for a Chem E major will be different than OChem for a Chemistry major or a pre med. The colleges will probably have different general education requirements though not too dramatically. If he wished to switch to a non stem major things could get more complicated.
FYE programs are about allowing students to get an overview of engineering before committing to a specific engineering major. Lots of schools either offer FYE programs or like Michigan delay declaring a major.
“To give students the opportunity to explore the numerous engineering degrees offered by the College, first year undergraduate engineering students not transferring from another institution of higher education enter the College without declaring a specific engineering major.” https://bulletin.engin.umich.edu/ug-ed/degrees/#subnav-1
It allows students to keep their options open until they have identified their strengths and interests to make an informed decision.
Don’t overlook the PA opportunity at Michigan State. https://honorscollege.msu.edu/programs/professorial-assistantship.html With a lot of dual credits the undergraduate time frame gets compressed and it’s especially important to get research in earlier than more traditional students in order to have a decent graduate school application.
However, Michigan is a better choice than many of the other schools with first year pre-engineering programs, because Michigan does not have the high GPA threshold or competitive admission process to declare majors like Purdue, Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, Penn State, Ohio State, Minnesota, etc. (or the high GPA threshold for weedout like Wisconsin). https://bulletin.engin.umich.edu/rules/registration/#subnav-7 indicates that a student in the Michigan engineering division just needs a 2.0 GPA and C grades to declare a major (granted, for employability, it is better to have a 3.0 or higher GPA by the time one applies to jobs).
“However, Michigan is a better choice than many of the other schools with first year pre-engineering programs, because Michigan does not have the high GPA threshold or competitive admission process to declare majors like Purdue, Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, Penn State, Ohio State, Minnesota, etc. (or the high GPA threshold for weedout like Wisconsin). https://bulletin.engin.umich.edu/rules/registration/#subnav-7 indicates that a student in the Michigan engineering division just needs a 2.0 GPA and C grades to declare a major (granted, for employability, it is better to have a 3.0 or higher GPA by the time one applies to jobs).”
I won’t deny Michigan is an excellent choice for nearly any major. I would think, however, that having a low GPA when you are not certain you wish to study engineering might be an indication another direction might be a better fit. If engineering was his dream career and he wanted to study it regardless of his grades then I understand the importance of a school with low cutoffs. If he wants to be successful in engineering then the higher cutoffs can make it more likely that he will be successful in starting his engineering career.
Most universities have GPA cutoffs that guarantee admission to a specific major. Those GPAs aren’t “required” to get into the majors. There are a number of students who successfully matriculate into their chosen major with lower GPAs at those schools that have cutoffs. In the example you showed for U of Minnesota over 18% of the students in the program had GPA’s lower than the minimum for guaranteed admission into Chem E. A bit under 8% were not admitted do to lack of space.
From the student’s point of view, it is better to be able to make his/her own choice about staying in engineering, rather than being forced out due to a weed out GPA that can be as high as 3.5. Frosh year in engineering where one is adjusting to college can be tough enough without the stress of chasing a pre-med-like GPA to avoid being weeded out like most pre-meds are.
I think you have an amazing realistic list. Have him reach out to the michigan regional counselor assigned to his school and let them know he wants to go to Michigan. Its on the Michigan website. Just email a question today. Soft contact is good. His profile is such that they might assume Michigan is a safety. Go visit. We had talks with the department heads and professors. Great thing to add to an essay to show interest. But Michigan also had 10,000 on its waiting list this summer and many with similar stats.
Not really wanting to add another school but might want to take a chance on Cornell. But I would still go to Michigan.
Even though ranked much lower. Michigan States honor program is really great. Lots of money, research etc for your son.
Thanks @BuckeyeMWDSG - when we toured MSU, we heard about the PA opportunity which sounded like an excellent opportunity. But I have to say that the engineering info session and tour at MSU were not very impressive; I think they may have undersold themselves, but hard to know.
Thanks @Knowstuff - I will definitely tell him to contact the regional counselor. He also got invited to attend a View of the U reception locally, where he can meet local alumni and ask questions. I told him I thought he needs to go, even though he already attended both the central campus and engineering sessions/tours, but it’s helpful to hear the importance of soft contact and demonstrating interest.
If he got invited directly from Michigan, then yes he needs to go. They are measuring interest to some extent. There should be a sign in or check off list. Remember… He might be able to get one of the few instate scholarships with his stats and resume. Let him know if he doesn’t go he is just giving that opportunity away to somebody else. Again it’s also something he can throw in a sentence on his essay about… “when I was at the View the U reception, I learned that University of Michigan, Pizza Bob’s is awesome for hot fudge chocolate chip shakes”… Errr… I mean Chemistry.
"I would think, however, that having a low GPA when you are not certain you wish to study engineering might be an indication another direction might be a better fit. If engineering was his dream career and he wanted to study it regardless of his grades then I understand the importance of a school with low cutoffs. "
If someone wants to move in another direction, then you’re better off at a university that’s strong across the board, engineering, science, social sciences, business, humanities. And in that case, Michigan would definitely be the better choice, along with schools like Northwestern and Wisconsin, if the student wants to stay in the midwest.
“If he wants to be successful in engineering then the higher cutoffs can make it more likely that he will be successful in starting his engineering career.”
If you can’t reach the higher cutoffs, you won’t be allowed to major in engineering. This would also argue to attend a place with a lower cutoff and try and improve the gpa junior and senior year when you take more courses in your major and less math/science.
“If you can’t reach the higher cut offs, you won’t be allowed to major in engineering.”
Engineering is very sequential and the courses taken freshmen year are vital to success in an engineering program. The question for a student who is “unsure of his path” is do I want to continue on this path. In most cases if a Chem E struggles in General Physics, Chemistry or Calculus they are not going to find Thermodynamics, Fluids, Heat and Mass Transfer, Separations, Reactions etc. any easier. In addition there will be other cut offs they’ll face. Typically the opportunities for internships and coops and research have GPA cut offs and of course as has been mentioned job opportunities are much harder to find with low GPAs. I would argue that schools with cut offs are not only limiting class size but they are to a degree attempting to ensure the students in their program have the tools and discipline to succeed.
I apologize for taking this thread off track a bit. However, I think it important to not eliminate schools as an option because of a cutoff to entering an engineering program. The OP admitted her son was not sure. I think most students will be happiest with a major and a career they are successful in. if the OP’s son is successful I think he’ll find the engineering curriculum interesting and challenging. If he were to struggle he will likely change directions on his own. That would be easier after his freshman year than being a sophomore and having another semester or two taking courses unrelated to a new major.
I totally agree withe @ivvcsf. If FYEs aren’t able to maintain decent grades in intro classes, it’s setting them up for failure to continue. That said, Purdue’s rate of transferring to major is remarkably high. I believe to be guaranteed to transfer to chemical engineering the GPA threshold is 3.2 but that doesn’t mean that you won’t get in. It just means it isn’t guaranteed. Purdue says that 98% of students with above a 2.75 still get their first choice of engineering majors, and over a 2.0 generally gets you in to your second choice. There is also the option of staying in FYE to retake a courses to improve a grade/GPA if a student is determined to pursue engineering. IMO, it’s not as competitive as some posters make it out to be.
So a technical GPA of 3.4 is not “decent grades” to continue in chemical engineering at Wisconsin? Or 3.1 at Purdue? Meanwhile, Michigan and Virginia consider 2.0 GPA and C grades to be “decent grades”.
Also, C is supposed to be a passing grade that indicates readiness for the next course(s).
There are other disadvantages with high weed-out GPAs. They can foster a more competitive or cutthroat environment if the courses are graded on a curve. Generally, this is seen as a bad thing on these forums.
However, Virginia Tech has a threshold GPA of 3.0, while Virginia has a threshold GPA of 2.0, in order to get into one’s choice of engineering major.
UVA recently removed caps, but even before that, most kids got their desired major. Most kids at VT also get their first choice major, even with a 3.0 threshold. Many good programs still do have some thresholds, and I agree with @lvvcsf about not automatically eliminating those that do from consideration. If that is important though, a family can concentrate on schools that do not place any restrictions at all on major.
I think it’s all context. At the Michigan open house for engineering last year they said all the 4.0 kids will become 3.0-3.3 from freshman to senior year. They considered this good from a top engineering program. Lots of kids at all programs find out quickly that they are not going to go into medicine or engineering. The freshman class requirements are tough even for the best students. Call them weeder classes if you must. Since grade point is more crucial for medical school lots of them decide to not to go into medical school. Grade point is not as crucial like that for engineering students per se. Most engineering program would like an 3.0 avg when done. Some programs avg are like 2.7. So another factor to look for when evaluating schools.
