Suggestions to boost Pre-Medical experiences/chance to get into top tier Medical School

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

Hello,

I am a rising sophomore Psychology major, a Nutrition and Food Science minor, and potentially a Biology minor. This past year, I took General Chemistry 1, Organic Chemistry 1, General Physics 1, some Psych courses and University Honors requirements. I put in a lot of time for my classes and ended the year with a 4.0. I am currently taking Organic Chemistry 2, BIO 1500 (plant and animal bio), and Nutrition and Health this summer. This will be an extremely tough semester.

Re Volunteering: I volunteer in the ER of a local hospital, where I have been volunteering since 10th grade. I also volunteer in the playroom and Observation unit of a nearby Children’s Hospital. I have also helped out in various programs at a nearby Children’s Help Center, including the ADHD group and Healthy Kids program. And I am an active volunteer through my school’s Circle K organization. I plan to continue most of this volunteering through UG.

Re Shadowing: I am actively shadowing a Pediatric Neurologist in her headache clinic. I have shadowed her in the past as well. I have also shadowed in the NICU/labor and birthing center, ER, Cardiac Cath lab, an internal medicine doctor, and two general surgeons (one in robotic surgery). Should I pick ONE specialty and stick with it?

Re Research: In high school, I worked for 8 weeks in a Hematology/Oncology lab where I conducted DNA PCR on various patient samples to test for a specific UGT1A1 gene that may cause Gilbert’s Syndrome. Since the beginning of freshman year, I have worked in a Neurocognitive Psychology lab. Our lab is studies memory and how it changes throughout the lifespan. I go in about 9 hours a week and divide my time between scoring behavioral tests such as the BRIEF, CBCL, among others. During the weekends, I administer the behavioral battery and MRI scans to participants. I am currently working on a summer project (receiving a stipend) where I am linking the behavioral results of participants to their hippocampal volumes to determine the differential development of the brains of males and females and healthy and preterm children. I am currently practicing to obtain hippocampal tracing reliability.

My main question is…I find working in a dry lab to be quite tedious. I don’t really see an end result from all the time I put in and I am not sure if I should stick with it. I also do not really see chances for publishing anytime soon. Should I consider joining a wet lab as well? I am not sure if I can handle the time commitments of both labs however.
Also, what should I get out of any research I conduct? I have presented my work at a regional conference and once my project is complete, I hope to present at an national conference as well.

I am also vice president of my school’s CKI organization and volunteer chair for a pre-med organization. I enjoy what I do in both organizations, but what do medical school’s want to see in terms of leadership? Is it important to start a new student chapter at one’s college?

And finally, I would like clinical work experience. I applied for a contingent, part time position as an ASD Behavior Tech as the commitment works best with my schedule. I know many people scribe or do EMT (jobs in the hospital), but will a Behavior Tech position hold value in my applications?

Sorry for the long post and thank you so much for all your help!!

2

Wow, for a rising sophomore you’ve done a lot! Sounds like you’re on a right track. My only advice is to do stuff that you enjoy not just what you think med schools will like to see on the application. It just sounds like you’re trying to pack as much as you can for med school application without taking a breath and enjoying your undergrad experience. Is there a reason why you’re taking all these summer courses? Are you trying to graduate early?

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Hi @momworried, thanks for your feedback!! You may think i’m crazy, but I really enjoy everything I’m doing and of course med school is on my mind, but that’s not the only reason I do the things I do!! No, I’m actually not trying to graduate early, but I don’t plan to take classes the following summers. With my program, honors college, major and minor requirements, it is quite challenging to fit all my classes solely into the school year.

I’m hoping I can spend the next summer volunteering abroad or possibly on a research fellowship for half the summer. Taking classes this summer, will give me the freedom to explore more options in the future!!

Do you have any suggestions for my research and clinical work experience concerns??

4

I’m not sure you could do much more resume building in the medical field.

My two cents is to do what many doctors fail - find a hobby. Show that you have an enduring interest in something outside of medicine and pursue that as well. Maybe it is something that dovetails with medicine like travel/adventure or something totally unrelated like stand up comedy. Just something to show that a human resides beneath the well burnished application.

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You are fine, but why the focus on “top tier med schools”? Why?

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If you are doing these minors because it makes you feel better about your studies, then go for it (I was a Biology and Classical Studies double major myself), but know that the Psych major alone is more than sufficient in the eyes of medical schools and no one will be impressed by your minors. In fact, my Classics major was viewed as a negative by some members of my MD/PhD program’s admissions committee. (That fact doesn’t necessarily mean much to you since prior coursework expectations are very different for MD/PhD vs. MD)

Awesome, keep up the good work.

You’ve responded that this is the only summer you plan to take courses. Good. This is a waste of valuable time without classes, and if the two minors are making it impossible to graduate in 4 years with no summer classes, I would drop one or both.

Awesome. Sounds perfect if you’re currently envisioning a career in child psych

No. Shadowing is all about exposure, the more specialties you can see the better as far as I’m concerned.

That high school experience is great. Definitely mention it when applying/looking for research positions as an undergrad, but by the time you apply to medical school you’ll probably leave it off your app. Sounds like you’re getting some great neuroscience skills. Make sure that overtime you are progressing towards having a larger role in research projects (e.g. designing experiments)

A. Welcome to scientific research - what you’re describing is not at all specific to dry labs (which I wouldn’t consider your lab a dry lab anyway - usually that term is reserved for labs that do entirely computational work with no animal/human/cellular subjects). B. Don’t worry about publications C. Only join another lab if you want, sounds like you couldn’t handle both so you probably shouldn’t. Either switch or stick with what you’re doing (I’d suggest the latter). D. What you should be getting out of your research is an understanding of how scientific research works, and you should eventually demonstrate your ability to be an active contributor to the thought process, not simply a set of hands to do someone else’s bidding. Presenting at conferences is good since it means you’ll need to be able to talk about your research in some degree of depth and be able to handle questions from other scientists about it. How you talk about your work is one of the ways you demonstrate that you were an active participant in the scientific method, and not the equivalent of a highly trained monkey.

I don’t know what CKI is. It is not important to start a new student chapter of something at a college. What med schools want to see in terms of everything is someone they can imagine in a patient room delivering healthcare. Medicine is a team sport these days, and leadership positions generally demonstrate that a person is responsible, dedicated, a good communicator, and able to work well with others. All of those are good qualities for a physician. Notice how you could easily demonstrate all that without starting a new club/chapter, and instead simply rise towards the top of an existing org.

Like scribe or EMT, not really. It certainly doesn’t hurt, but scribes, EMTs, and behavior techs are not doctors. The sheer fact that someone has one of those positions means nothing. It’s what characteristics they can demonstrate they have (e.g. the ones above) which can be done in either a clinical or non clinical setting. If you would prefer to do it in a clinical setting, great, go for it.

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Hello @WISdad23, thank you for your input. I definitely agree that I need to find an enduring hobby. During HS, two of the activities I was most passionate about were Model United Nations and Tennis. We have a Model UN org at my college, but it isn’t very active. I have been considering restarting it for a while now, but I am not sure I have what it takes to run it. Organizing delegations to compete at national conferences takes quite a bit of talent and time.

I may give it a shot, we’ll see. If I do decide to give Model UN a shot, I would like to bring our group to local public schools and teach students a little about geography, as this is a subject rarely taught in schools anymore.

And regarding tennis, joining an intramural team is a possibility, as I am not that competitive.

You’re right, I need to find time to do things I love, not just things that will add to my resume.

Please let me know what you think.

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@mom2collegekids, my top choice for medical school, is University of Michigan, as I am a Michigan resident. UM is ranked in the nations top medical schools and is extremely competitive to get into. I am currently in a BS/MD program, so if I maintain the required gpa and mcat scores, I have preferred admission to my SOM. But I still want to keep my aspirations higher and shoot for UM.

What do you think?

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That sounds good to me. I have no idea what the model UN stuff is, but I see it listed on virtually every high stat students EC’s. To me, the tennis seems more personal, something that you do for the enjoyment of it even without being in the top tier. Some people are drawn only to things they are good at and then suffer during the humble pie of med school and residency - and of course work life.

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@iwannabe_Brown Thank you so much for all the feedback!! I truly appreciate it :slight_smile: The reason i’m doing my Nutrition minor is because i’m really passionate about this subject. I feel that NFS is an important aspect of medicine and isn’t given too much attention in the med school curriculum. Plus this subject is really applicable to my daily life. I may drop the Bio minor if it becomes too much to handle. Based off what you said and what i’ve been reading, “minors are minor” in the application process.

I am concerned that this summer with my Organic Chem 2 and Bio 1500 combo, it might be difficult to maintain my GPA. I will do my best however.

What did you mean my volunteering is good for a career in child psych? My goal is to become a Neonatologist or go into Pediatric Neurology, but that is subject to change. I know I would like to do some realm of Pediatrics in the future.

Regarding Research, I will probably end up sticking with my lab as I have been here for a year now and garnered respect from my fellow researchers. I have also had the opportunity to present my current work at a couple regional conferences and am working on the summer project currently. I just got put off when I failed to achieve hippocampal reliability the first time, but it’s a lengthy process and with more practice, hopefully I can pass on my second attempt. Although I am contributing to projects, I think my main concern is that I do not know how our lab’s finding are contributing to the betterment of medicine. I am working under a PhD and not an MD/PhD as well. This may be something I should talk to my PI about.

As I would still like more experience working in a bio lab, maybe I should apply for an 8-10 week summer fellowship next summer? I applied to 2 this summer, but I didn’t have an established GPA, as I was only a freshmen. Are these programs extremely competitive to get into or do I stand a chance? I limited myself to instate this year, but this winter, I will apply to as many as I can with the hopes of getting a couple acceptances.

CKI stands for Circle K International which is the world’s largest student led collegiate service organization. We participate in a lot of service and fellowship activities around the state and I love the camaraderie I get from being part of this org. Service is my passion and I love interacting with like-minded students.

And regarding working, my problem is that I want to do everything I enjoy. I have been offered a job as a Peer Mentor for Basic Chemistry in the fall. It is basically 10 hrs/week divided between classroom and one on one time where I help students with the concepts presented in the course. I am not sure whether I should accept the position as I will have to spend 3 hours a week in a lecture of useless info. I was hoping to peer mentor for general chemistry because this material will be tested on the MCAT and teaching others will help me refresh the concepts myself. Peer Mentoring is considered leadership experience and if I stick with the program for a couple semesters, I could get a strong LOR.

I will have ~10 hrs/week in lab, but that is flexible. Should I accept the position? I applied for the ASD Behavior tech position, but I am not sure if I will be offered the job. As it is contingent, I am expecting a 10 hr/week commitment. Do you think I could handle both?

As I love working with kids, I feel that I would enjoy the Behavior Tech position. I would get one on one patient contact with kids with autism and I would be directly improving their lives. I would also get a chance to work as a part of the University Pediatricians team and I feel like I would really enjoy this job. Plus, although this is the least important factor, I would make $10.30/hr as compared to $8.15 for the Peer Mentor job.

Please let me know what you think. I appreciate all your help :slight_smile:

11

From what we learned in another thread, UMich SOM accepts mostly their own applicants and some OOS.

But, go ahead and apply to Umich and others, as long as your BS/MD program allows.

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@mom2collegekids Out of the 15 seniors in my program this year, at least two were accepted to UM and both will be attending in the fall. It is extremely challenging to get in, but it definitely is possible.

I have observed that UM prefers its own students and OOS over in state, but many in staters from other schools are also granted admission.

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I just meant that someone interested in child psych would probably engage in those types of activities. Someone who is also interested in pediatric neurology would obviously have similar interests. The lines between neuro and psych have become rather blurred. I think it’s gotten to the point where the majority of the kids in my program doing PhDs in neuro pursue psychiatry, not neurology for their clinical work. For example one of my classmates is planning on doing that because his neuro PhD is focused entirely on drug addiction - which in clinical practice is pretty much exclusively treated by psychiatry, not neurology. NICU is obviously quite different from the others, but regardless, even just knowing you want to work with kids makes sense with what you’re doing. Who knows, maybe you’ll even triple board (peds/psych/child psych). “Peds something” is a good place to be at this point.

Yes, you should know how to answer that question. Your PI almost certainly does, even if he doesn’t have an MD because his grants almost certainly required it. An even better conversation to have with your PI would be for you to come into that discussion with some thoughts of your own. It’s ok if you’re wrong, but he/she will be far more impressed if you come in demonstrating you have been thinking about it and have tried to answer the question yourself than if you walk in there and just ask him/her to spoon feed you the answer.

I’ll summon @plumazul since I’m pretty sure she feels differently, but I find these programs overrated. By that I mean that for the amount of effort it takes to get into one of these programs, the return you get beyond just working in the same lab over the summer is minimal. They often have some programming outside of your time in the lab that you won’t be able to replicate, but from a pure “research experience” point of view, I don’t see them as being viewed with any more regard than a good experience in a lab at your university - and that is far easier to get.

Cool. Glad you found an on campus activity you really enjoy. I forgot to mention this in my last post, but instead of going abroad to volunteer, you should stay in the USA. Plenty of areas in the USA that are in desperate need of a helping hand coughindianreservationscough*, and domestic volunteering doesn’t carry the same risk of coming off as voluntourism.

I don’t know you, so I can’t really answer these for you, but welcome to the beginning of adulthood - balancing time commitments and prioritizing your responsibilities is a key skill - and one that is ESSENTIAL for medical school. This is the time to learn how to do it. If it were me, and I take what you’ve written here at face value, I’m choosing the behavior tech position over the tutoring. I don’t have enough to evaluate if an extra position will be too much for you though.

*I guess now they are Native American reservations since “Indian” no longer appears in federal documents (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/obama-signs-bill-eliminating-negro-spanish-speaking-oriental-from-federal-laws/)? I.e. these are no longer under control of the US Bureau of Indian Affairs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Indian_Affairs), but now under the control of the US Bureau of Native American Affairs?

14

The 2 most important factors are your college GPA and the MCAT score. The medical ECs are important basically to show that you are interested in medicine. As long as you have a standard set in the area of YOUR personal interest, like medical Research internship / job, volunteering, shadowing, you are gong to be OK, not a biggie here. Make sure that you grow personally and be able to connect to wide variety of personalities, do not limit your social interractions by the intense crowd of pre-meds, widen your horizon. Social development is not something that will get you in, it is something that will make your life during medical school more tolerable and also something that will make your superiors notice you as a great team player and the one with good bed manners. It also makes the interviews somewhat less stressful experience. And it is something that is overlooked by many during college years. However, all my points from above are based on the experience of my D. and her friends. D. is finishing her first year of residency. She mentioned also that the couple college subject that were the most helpful for her in medical school were Anatomy and Spanish. However, I would not pursue either in college unless you are personally very interested in them. Your personal interests become more and more important as you progress on this hard and sometime torturous road. Respect them first, then listen to others’ advice.
"I have observed that UM prefers its own students and OOS over in state, but many in staters from other schools are also granted admission. " - This has been our experience also. D’s application to UM was IGNORED. Not a peep from them. She did not care too much though. She had great choices of 4 medical schools. She was also in bs/md program, but applied out and gained admission to 3 additional schools. Best wishes!

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That is a good point - Spanish. Certainly not necessary for admission to med school, but if you can speak good enough Spanish you will save yourself a massive amount of time in residency and possibly give yourself a competitive edge. Dolor aqui? Oye voces?

16

https://medicine.umich.edu/medschool/sites/medicine.umich.edu.medschool/files/field/docs/2016%20Tracker_2.pptx

Michigan admitted 110 instate with about 74 from their own school (assuming most are instate). That means they accepted 36 others from Michigan.

It is interesting to see how many applied and interviewed from Michigan State and Wayne State. Wayne State had 6 admissions which means Michigan State had fewer than 6.