@frazzled1 Sorry, I can’t find it. It was 3 years ago when I researched it and I remember it took quite a while to dig it up. I just spent a little while looking and I don’t readily see it.
We know a very well respected Northern Virginia clinical psychologist who has worked with students around here for over 20 years. This doctor told me that William and Mary has a reputation of being a pressure cooker for certain majors.
That is not how that works.
@cruelprofessors So professors should give everyone A’s? Life is pressure. These students chose a prestigious, demanding school.
Wow, I’m overwhelmed by your warm compassion for suicidal students.
If you are not already employed at William and Mary already, you very well could be.
“Statistically, they should have 3 times more suicides.”
“That is not how that works.”
Yes, shouldn’t compare any one school to another school because the sample sizes are just too small.
@GoogleBerry, can you elaborate on your daughter’s experience?
“. . . overwhelmed by your warm compassion for suicidal students.”
The pressure-cooker aspect and the incidence of suicide are two different issues. Absolutely, both should be addressed. But it is a mistake to assume that one necessarily causes the other. How else does one explain that suicides also occur at schools with less pressure?
There is a cluster effect that suicides have, especially when others know the victim well. It’s not as big of effect when someone that is not as close commits suicide. The closer it hits, the more of a “copycat” effect it has. That has been well documented.
<<<can you="" elaborate="" on="" your="" daughter’s="" experience?="">>>
No. Sorry.
I would have divulge personal information and I’m not about to do that in here.
I find the atmosphere in here to be way too vitriolic and mean-spirited.
We’re advocating compassion, all around.
@GoogleBerry “I find the atmosphere in here to be way too vitriolic and mean-spirited.”
You come attack a school on its forum page, and when others defend it, say this? Sorry, but I think this reflects more on you than it does on this community. We are asking for compassion for the students, the school’s efforts, and for those with mental illness.
William and Mary students have made known the contents of the email. The student was not enrolled at the time and had not declared a major. This has nothing to do with the college, at least that conclusion cannot be drawn yet (and likely will never be supported).
I don’t think anyone is marginalizing suicide or denying that some schools and some majors are known to be more intensively competitive than others. The point is that while such environments may be a stressor, a student with no mental health issues, a supportive family and whose self esteem isn’t predicated wholly on academic achievement isn’t going to commit suicide because of such pressure. They will either deal with it, transfer to another school, or change majors.
College is a big change for young adults and mental health issues often surface during that time. But the issues are already there. The environment may expose the issues - that doesn’t mean it created them.
Comparing UVA and W&M does not work. W&M selectively attracts more high achieving and academically focused students. Most ( especially in-state students) are accepted to both, like my son. He is introspective and thoughtful and feels he is like most of the kids who pick WM, they chose the school because it has a higher academic rigor ( SATs are higher) for accepted students and did not like the party atmosphere he saw at UVA.
Perhaps those types of students are more prone to behaviors what lead to self harm
@GoogleBerry, I’m sorry – wasn’t looking for personal information as much as seeking to understand why you feel the way you do. It must be painful to think that you unknowingly placed your daughter at risk by allowing her to enroll at a school where you now believe she has undue pressure and no safety net and worrisome, if not frightening, to know that as a sophomore she still has two more years in that environment-- we all want our kids to wind up at schools where they will be happy, healthy, and productive.
I did reread the comments looking for vitriol and mean-spiritedness but honestly was struck by how little of that I found. Thinking of all who struggle with depression; may they find understanding of and treatment for their illness.
Ohio State University has a Director of Suicide Prevention on staff. She estimates that nationwide, 1.3% of college students make some type of attempt each year. 90% of students who complete suicide have exhibited significant behavioral changes in the week prior to death.
OSU is in its 7th year of running a program called REACH, that trains faculty, staff and students to recognize warning signs, and intervene. This includes identifying common signals such as anger, not going to class, depression, being withdrawn from friends, etc, and then knowing which resources are available on campus for immediate help.
While on the surface some “institutions” may not seem to care, there are very often people within those institutions who care a great deal. Anyone who is concerned about whether their child’s institution is doing enough should find out what training and resources are available, and then lobby for more if they are insufficient.
So this is my first post here on CC. When I heard about yet another suicide, I felt an obligation to post something about my experiences in Williamsburg.
I graduated from UVa a few years ago. Currently, I’m a W&M graduate student, but I plan on transferring to a different university because I am so fed up. The W&M faculty and staff are incredibly passive aggressive, selfish, dishonest and difficult. Maybe I am being harsh, but after working for the school for 1 year as a teaching and research assistant, I feel incredibly cheated. It almost feels like the program admissions faculty looked at my attractive UVa credentials and pretty much embellished/exaggerated everything about this program in order to get me to matriculate. My fellow classmates come from no-name universities with low GPAs. Graduate coursework is a lie. In my program, you are placed in a graduate class that is “disguised” as a undergraduate level class via the art of cross-listing. So I am essentially “retaking” my undergraduate courses with annoying juniors and seniors…
When I expressed a desire to transfer and confided that I was feeling depressed, my advisor immediately suggested a medical withdrawal out of the blue. (My academic performance was fine, by the way). From my experiences and what I have heard from other students, W&M often pushes for medical withdrawals to avoid having to deal with depressed students. Unlike UVa CAPS, W&M health center’s options for support groups and counseling are pretty lacking. Some students end up seeking medical support at private psychiatric establishments off campus. This is not the case at UVa. Many of my friends have gone to UVa CAPs and expressed praise and gratitude towards the program.
Conclusion: I am definitely not letting my future kids go to W&M. (JK…but not really lol)
@wahoowahoo - given your many serious disappointments at W&M, pursuing a transfer appears to be your best option. For any prospective students or concerned parents who may read this thread, I would like to counter the accusations and impressions of posters like the OP, @wahoowahoo, and @cruelprofessors by providing the link to W&M’s Counseling Center webpages, which provide an extensive look at the counseling program available (free of charge) to W&M students, its scope, and its limitations : http://www.wm.edu/offices/wellness/counselingcenter/index.php
As I see it, the center provides a reasonable response to student needs. Students in crisis can be seen immediately during regular business hours; a counselor is always on call outside of regular hours, reachable through the Campus Police. UVA provides the same service, with the same limitation, except that the student phones the Student Health answering service instead of the police. If there are public universities that provide 24/7 walk-in counseling appointments, I don’t know of them.
Regarding the CAPS program at UVA - the program was discussed in this thread last year: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/1612619-suggestions-for-improving-the-uva-experience.html The student, and her parent, did not consider the response adequate.
As to how W&M “pushes for medical withdrawals to avoid having to deal with depressed students” - it’s entirely reasonable for many, if not most, seriously depressed students to withdraw until they recover. Colleges can’t stop being colleges to be mental health facilities instead.
@wahoowahoo
I am not surprised you are disappointed with W&M as a grad school. Frankly, as a UVa grad I would think you would understand the difference between a college and a university. W&M is one of the finest undergraduate institutions in this country. On the other hand they have a very limited offering of graduate degrees, plus they offer an MBA, a law degree, a Masters in Education and a marine science professional degree that is at a separate location. Graduate school is not their forte. No ill will towards W&M, but masters programs like that are considered cash cows for many schools. Perhaps that is coloring your comments in general, that you didn’t do enough research as to appropriate grad schools. BTW, even schools like Stanford and Harvard cross list a great many of their grad courses to undergrad designations. So Chem 636 might very well also be Chem 336. Same for Modern Chinese Politics 770 and 470. Not in the least unusual.