Suicide Rumors at W&W

Colleges and Universities A-Z College of William and Mary
1

<p>My daughter is looking at William and Mary as a college choice and several people we know have said “Oh my that has the highest suicide rate in the country! Don’t let her go there!” Being from Brooklyn and basically having lived by Ronald Reagan’s mantra “Trust but verify,” I did some digging and here is an article from 2006 on the topic on the W&M web site on the question. </p>

<p>Rumor: William and Mary has the highest student suicide rate in the nation.
Status: False.</p>

<p>The real problem with this most notorious of all campus rumors is that it reduces suicide to a mere statistic, ignoring the tragedy for the sake of mere shock value. That said, the legend fortunately wilts in the hard light of truth. Dr. Kelly Crace, director of the College's counseling center, notes that the most recent surveys on suicide place the annual figure at 10 per 100,000 15-to-24-year-olds. Reduced to William and Mary's enrollment of 7,500, that would correspond to an average rate of 7.5 suicides every 10 years. But the College has recorded a total of 11 suicides since 1968 -- far below the national average.
The question of how the rumor got started in the first place is murkier. Crace notes that one possible origin could be "guilt by association." The College has had in place for 30 years a proactive policy designed to intervene when students threaten to harm themselves. Now called the Medical Emotional Emergency Policy, it was once called the "Suicide Policy," and received national attention for its progressive nature. Of course, it's possible that many people assumed the College wouldn't have in place such a comprehensive policy if there wasn't already a problem -- hence the pervasive rumor.</p>

2

<p>to put it bluntly, the people who say that are just blindly repeating what they heard, kind of like most americans with cable news. They heard a 10 second sound clip about something, and feel the need to share their new knowledge with all who will listen.</p>

<p>Do these people that you come in contact with know about the awesome undergraduate education at William and Mary, or just that “it has a high suicide rate?”</p>

<p>Kids in high school and college sometimes commit suicide. That is a fact. W&M is a very supportive campus, and students genuinely enjoy their time there. That is also a fact. Like every other college in the country, sometimes there are suicides. But, as you can see from the facts, the suicide rate at W&M is well below the national average.</p>

3

<p>when i told my sister’s biology teacher that i was going to william and mary, the first thing he said (and i have to add that he went here for his masters and his daughter graduated not long ago) was, “oh, you know… w&m has the highest suicide rate in the country.”</p>

<p>…</p>

<p>okaaaaaaaay</p>

<p>i had actually seen that article that the OP quoted so i explained that that was just a myth (or tried to anyways…)</p>

4

<p>Another myth repeated by UVirginia students trying to build up by tearing another down. I guess this why they are #25 in latest GQ poll.</p>

5

<p>I am sick and tired of hearing people, whether alumni or administrators, constantly downplaying the very serious problem of suicide that William & Mary has seemed to brush off more and more over the years. FACT: 3 of my friends took their own lives this semester (Spring 2010). One of them was not reported by Williamsburg police because he technically was not enrolled anymore at the time of his death. That’s a huge number of suicides for the short time span of 5 months. W&M sends a mass email each time to subdue people’s thoughts on our staggering suicide rate by comparing it to the national suicide rate, which by the way, is the definition of ‘treating the deaths as mere statistics,’ and not to mention it’s statistically invalid because we have a student population way smaller than the national population. One needs to account for the fact that suicides have clustered around our school. The numbers don’t add up. And as a friend of the most recent W&M students (one of which was a former W&M student) who decided to take their lives, I refuse to let their lives be passed off as ‘myth’ to be part of the administration’s long-lived masking of the truth. These losses, which occurred at a staggeringly high and concentrated rate, prove that there IS a REAL problem at the College concerning suicide and the ways in which the administration attempts to cover up, or mislead the public to believe that there is not a problem. To those administrators and reputation-protectors, YOU ARE DISGRACING THE LIVES OF THESE STUDENTS. Mental health is not taken seriously at our school. Counselors at the Counseling Center are told to end treatment when a student appears suicidal, or exhibits suicidal thoughts. The intervention of the Dean of Students almost always ends in a forced medical withdrawal, which to me tells me that the policies in place are not there to protect the students, but to protect the university. Similar information can be found in a W&M student’s article entitled “The Forgotten” published in the The Dog Street Journal (Link: [The</a> Forgotten - The DoG Street Journal](<a href=“http://www.dogstreetjournal.com/story/2531]The”>http://www.dogstreetjournal.com/story/2531)).</p>

6

<p>wm2011gurl,</p>

<p>As the parent of an incoming freshman, my question to you is why the rash of suicides at W&M? What is going on at your school that allows or encourages or enables young people to end their lives? I understand that the academics are rigorous, but certainly no more so than at several other prestigious schools. Is there not a balance there between partying and studying? Are kids under that much stress? Are the safeguards not in place to prevent such tragedies?</p>

<p>I know there is no 100% fool-proof way to prevent suicides from occuring, but I would like to know what you see as the root of the problem. I am at least 30 years older than you, and I have only had one friend take his life. You have lost 3 friends in 3 months? That’s a staggering number of lives lost. What is going on there?</p>

7

<p>wm2011gurl, I am stunned by your allegations. The fact that this is your first post makes it difficult to accept what you say as truth. But even if you were a long-term poster, with many responsible and well-reasoned posts to your name, I would still find the following suspect:

No intelligent reader will accept this as truth without proof. If you care to post documentation of your allegation, particularly the sentences bolded above, we can evaluate the accuracy of your assertions.</p>

<p>If the intervention of the Dean of Students “almost always ends in a forced withdrawal,” perhaps that is because the College is a college and not a mental health facility. Perhaps it is indeed putting the needs of the student with a serious mental illness first by requiring him/her to withdraw.</p>

<p>I am sorry that you have lost 3 friends this semester. I have personal experience with suicide and am well aware of the pain it inflicts on survivors. However, it is irresponsible to make these extreme, unsupported statements here.

I question your statistical analysis; you also ought to have pointed out that the article you cite above, an opinion piece, is 5 years old. I see nothing irresponsible or suspicious about the suicide of a former student not being reported as a campus suicide; it clearly wasn’t a campus suicide. </p>

<p>Like runmanstl, I’d like to know what you feel is responsible for these tragic deaths.</p>

8

<p>I’ve just been to the W & M website to investigate what the College puts forth as its policy/procedures regarding emergency mental illness situations.

This is a reasonable, responsible policy. Elsewhere, the site points out that psychological counseling services are free to all students; that services are extended to friends, teachers, and family members of students in crisis; that a variety of counseling services are offered, including individual, couples, group, and family counseling. The site further offers resources for faculty and family members, detailing what behaviors are danger signs and how the concerned person should respond.</p>

<p>Finally, the counseling center website contains a page on suicide prevention ([William</a> & Mary - Suicide Prevention](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/offices/counselingcenter/services/resources/brochures/suicideprevention/index.php]William”>http://www.wm.edu/offices/counselingcenter/services/resources/brochures/suicideprevention/index.php)) which includes the following statements:

</p>

<p>I do not know see how the above jives with the statement in post 5 that “mental health is not taken seriously at our school.”</p>

9

<p>My daughter’s freshman year,2007, her good friend was struggling with depression and frequented the counseling center. She was advised to take a medical withdrawal, left a semester and returned fall of 2008. Was it to protect the campus so that she wouldn’t commit suicide while a student? Who knows? What MATTERS is she went home, sought treatment including medication and therapy, returned and is thriving. A counseling center any where, can only help so much. Sometimes intense therapy is required and with most medications, careful observation is necessary. It’s a tragedy these young adults taking their own lives. I don’t think my daughter is in jeopardy because she’s a student at WM.</p>

10

<p>It is interesting to note that it was a faculty member who first warned campus police / the counseling center about the girl earlier this semester. I think that would suggest that people do take it seriously. And with a community that feels as small as W&M (I’ve never felt so close to 6000 people), something like this is a big shock. I did not personally know either victim, but I know people who knew each of them - so I certainly felt the repercussions.</p>

11

<p>maybe they committed suicide b/c they couldn’t take your rash online ranting without supported facts. (tasteless comment? yes… truth? possibly)</p>

<p>W&M recommends what is best for the student. If people have serious mental issues, then they SHOULD NOT be at any university. They should be with their family getting support.</p>

<p>I find it interesting you dug up a thread from 8 months ago for your first post on the forum…</p>

12

<p>I didn’t mean to be harsh in my posts yesterday, wmurl2011. I should have offered you more compassion for your loss. Suicide by a young person is especially devastating for the survivors. I’m convinced that the suicide victim truly can’t go on and has lost the ability to understand what his/her actions will do to family and friends. </p>

<p>You’re dealing with a huge emotional blow. However, suicide happens even when an excellent support system is in place, even when the victim has access to every kind of help, and even when family, friends, and a school or office are aware of the danger. People commit suicide in spite of these things, not necessarily because the help isn’t there or the resources are inadequate. </p>

<p>It’s common for suicides to occur in clusters, which is especially difficult for community members to deal with. The unusual number of suicides this year at W & M does not make it a suicide school. Suicides have clustered at NYU and Cornell in recent years, too, despite - not because of - the best efforts of the schools to deal with the problem. Suicide is the second leading cause of death among college students, and among non-college students in the same age group.</p>

<p>I want to repeat, emphatically, that I believe the psychological counseling resources at W & M, as well as the school’s responses to these tragic deaths over the years, are appropriate and responsible.</p>

13

<p>Suicide by a young person is one of the most painful things that can happen to their friends, family, and community. You lose someone you love to what would often be objectively be considered a temporary condition (a break-up with a girl/boyfriend, a bad grade, or just the usual ups-and-downs we all experience in our lives.) These are often impulsive acts, land there’s plenty of evidence to suggest that, should the attempt fail, they’d never be repeated. And we’re left with the guilt of not seeing or preventing their act. </p>

<p>As frazzled1 points out, suicides nearly almost occur in clusters - Cornell has suffered 3 in a month, and six this school year. These turn what’s already tragedy into traumatizing events on those in the community. </p>

<p>I’ve experienced the loss of a close friend to suicide, and through my years at school, knew several others. These are devastating to friends and family - you must not only deal with the pain of the loss of someone you loved, the loss of their future, the pain of your future suddenly without them, but add to that the agony of guilt they leave you with, the thought that if you’d only known, or been there, or acted, that you could’ve stopped them, and they’d still be alive. 30 years on, I still ask myself what I could’ve done to stop my friend that day, and still mourn the loss of a brilliant life that should’ve been. </p>

<p>So, wm2011gurl, you have my deepest sympathies (as do all the friends and families of those two students.) The pain of loss, and the pain of guilt are terrible burdens to bear - I know.</p>

<p>But I have to tell you, lashing out at others is likely transferring your own trauma and guilty feelings to someone else. And, not to be accusatory, but I have to ask - if you were truly friends of all three - what was your role? What were your responsibilities? Did you refer any of your friends to counseling or engage the families? Or did you not notice any changes in their behavior at all? And if you, as a friend, didn’t notice anything wrong, why expect the administration to know and intervene? If the administration “failed” these students in any way, this should be examined and addressed - but hurling unsubstantiated and ultimately, not very believable accusations in the way you did helps no one. You can’t help the ones that have gone - but it’s possible, perhaps, to prevent future traumas. </p>

<p>If you’re feeling traumatized by these events, (and I think you are), you should do what these students should’ve done, and that’s seek out assistance at the Counseling Center. As I’ve said, a suicide of a loved one leaves devastating and complex feelings in their friends and family, and there’s no shame in finding someone to help you heal. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

14

<p>

I do have to note that this explanation does not actually refute the idea that W&M has the highest suicide rate of any college. It compares W&M students to an overall average for 15-to-24 year-olds–which obviously includes a lot of people who aren’t college students at all.</p>

<p>Probably a better explanation would be that the suicide rates at all colleges are so low that it makes little sense to compare them at all.</p>

15

<p>soccerguy, your post is outrageous and does more to discredit william and mary than wm20011’s heartfelt post. if you’re really in americorps, i hope they’re not trusting you with anyone who’s fragile or requires any kind of compassion or understanding. shame on you.</p>

16

<p>Her post was not heartfelt. It was a rant with baseless accusations of a very serious nature. She said that W&M is making a conscious decision to remove suicidal students from the school and deny them help to protect the public image. </p>

<p>Her post is nothing but lies.</p>

<p>People commit suicide everyday. Don’t pretend like the people who commit suicide at W&M are more valuable, and therefore a bigger deal, than the countless others across the country and around the world.</p>

<p>And don’t worry, I’ve finished my time with AmeriCorps.</p>

<p>I’m sorry I prefer to deal in facts while others deal in emotions.</p>

17

<p>I’ve already voiced my dismay at the lack of civility of some posters here, and I will again apologize on their behalf–not for their sake, as they are clearly unapologetic, but because I don’t want their stain on me–and reiterate that their thoughts are their own and not necessarily indicative of W&M students, alum, parents, or administration as a whole.</p>

<p>There’s an occasional streak of pettiness and defensiveness on this forum that I find unbecoming of people who, officially or not, serve as representatives of the College. It’s fine to provide guidance, correct errors, or challenge preconceptions–that’s one of the great services that these forums provide–but it shouldn’t be asking too much of W&M students and alums to do it civilly, regardless of the tone others might use toward us.</p>

<p>As for the suicide rate at W&M, I never understood why that old saw persists, or why people get exercised about it. It’s obviously not true, but even if it was true, does that mean I’m going to commit suicide if I go there? When I was applying to colleges, Cornell had the same reputation, but I’ve never run into a single person who was deterred from attending Cornell (or W&M) for that reason. I loved The Virgin Suicides as much as the next person, but I’ve always regarded suicide as the responsibility of the individual, not the environment. If someone is really, really determined to leave this world, there’s not much anyone can do. When I was at W&M, the counseling and support resources were well publicized and, in my brief experience, eager to help.</p>

<p>As for WM2011gurl’s post, I don’t quite follow the logic. Yes, a suicide is a terrible tragedy and I’m sorry for anyone that is affected by it. But if the College is more interested in covering it’s own behind than helping suicidal students, why would it end treatment for them, unless they were also immediately forced to withdraw from school? The relationship between stopping treatment and withdrawal was not made clear in the post. And, like momray pointed out, making a student withdraw from school could very well be in that student’s best interests. Secondly, like runmanstl, I am curious as to what the possible reasons are for this cluster of suicides. We await your reply.</p>

<p>I remember a few years ago George Washington University got beat up in the press for barring a depressed student from campus. Slate had a good roundup of the situation and the issues surrounding the ways universities deal with suicides. </p>

<p>[The</a> dilemma of suicidal college students. - By Amanda Schaffer - Slate Magazine](<a href=“http://www.slate.com/id/2142373]The”>The dilemma of suicidal college students.)</p>

18

<p>Nearly all colleges have a similar policy of requiring students who exhibit signs that they might commit suicide to withdraw. William & Mary is not unusual in this regard. This is a policy to protect students, not the school. It is very difficult or impossible to deal with serious emotional difficulties while trying to succeed at an academically challenging college.</p>

19

<p>I only go into ******* mode when someone else does it first. =)</p>

<p>the poster on this thread that has created the issue, is commonly referred to as a “■■■■■” in internet lingo.</p>

<p>hx… do you disagree that her post was a hate filled rant of baseless accusations? I don’t think you do, since you seem to have said as much in your own response. So, I take it that my posts do not contain enough flowers and rainbows to make everything seem happy.</p>

<p>And I am not happy, because the ■■■■■ accused W&M of actively pushing people towards suicide.</p>

20

<p>Soccerguy, a “■■■■■” by definition cannot be someone who has posted exactly ONE comment on this board. Your response was juvenile, knee-jerk, uncaring, and unfair, and your follow-up post is no better. If you want to hurl personal attacks against posters who make inconsequential comments with which you disagree (like, say, U-Va is better than William and Mary or what have you), that’s one thing, but your response here was out of bounds. And if you don’t see that, then you weren’t taught very much at William and Mary.</p>