<p>Well, some summer programs are actual college courses with real college credits (like Cornell and Duke), so I'd put them in a different category than the "mini courses" or "explorations." IMO, these others probably should be undertaken just because you're interested or because you want to, not because of how it looks on an application. For example, for the other 3 weeks, my daughter's going to a (rather expensive) dance program just because she can't imagine a summer without dancing. That's her passion, and that's why we're willing to spend the money (though she's probably like every other kid who dances recreationally - she's not nationally recognized or a prima ballerina or anything like that, so it's probably not what others on these boards call a "hook" for admissions purposes).</p>
<p>Not really asking what is an advantage, but rather whether it's a disadvantage to send a child to a summer program that 95% of families can't afford. Mine will not qualify for RSI or a top free program, so they have gone the cc route so far. We could stretch and afford the others, but again, I'm wondering how most people view this.</p>
<p>My D spent the last two summers in the Brown program. They truly treat the kids like any other college summer student. That can be a positive or a negative. My D took 2 full 7 week summer courses with other Brown upperclassmen each year. The first summer she was a rising Jr. She was younger than her roommate. Roommate was promiscuous to the extreme and it was a problem, one ultimately dealt with by the floor counselors. After a roommate switch, all was roses and 2nd roommate is still a close friend. </p>
<p>The classes in the 7 week program are real college level work, unlike the short courses. Last summer Modern Middle Eastern History had 9 books and two major papers in 7 weeks. The instructor was a close friend of the author of 'Reading Lolita in Teran'. The course was excellent. Medicine, Law, and Morality had students of all types including a lady that ran an abortion clinic. The teacher was a Harvard Law graduate and was heading to Columbia Med in the fall. There were very spirited discussions as you might imagine. I would recommend the Brown program for students that are mature and want to do college level work. Like most Ivy League schools, the classroom time is less than the outside work. If you actually do the outside work, you will be busy. My daughter, after the first two weeks of the first summer, didn't want to come home at the end of either summer. Her study groups consisted of Brown upperclassmen. The intellectual stimulation and submitting papers to college profs were both valuable. </p>
<p>It's not for every high school student. Your student will go to Starbucks or the crepe place after midnight, and no one will care. It is college, not a summer camp. </p>
<p>If you want it from the horse's mouth, PM lindseylujh. And no, from our experience there is no negative in the admissions process from attending a summer program. She was admitted everywhere. I do think programs that offer real college courses are somewhat more valuable. I also think it was more valuable to her than working at minimum wage all summer. Some kids crave the intellectual stimulation.</p>
<p>Bandit, when you say admitted everywhere, what schools do you mean?</p>
<p>they aren't going to look DOWN on somebody who spent their summer learning what are you talking about? and it's not just "rich people," as probably 2/3 of the people in my program (at WUSTL) got financial aid.</p>
<p>There is no way that 2/3 of kids at WUSTL's or any other summer program (other than the free ones) were paid for. These are big money makers for schools. Michele Hernandez, in her books, has talked about adcoms having issues with those who display affluence. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>Zagat - </p>
<p>Is the equation that simple....low versus high cost? Doesn't it get back to the fact that kids are different and need different things. You can't label programs as good or bad merely by cost. For example, if you have a child who wants to work with lab equipment that he/she can't get at the local high school, where do you go? If you have ties in the medical community, you might personally contact a researcher. We had no such contacts and our efforts in that direction brought no response. </p>
<p>We looked into many options, low paying and high paying. Some of the "free" ones were prohibitively competitive, didn't "fit" in terms of interest, or were designed for minority or low income applicants. Our son had previously spent summers volunteering, but this time wanted a lab experience and to have a closer look at a reach school in which he was seriously interested. Together, we chose UChicago. We also hoped a "for-credit" course would give him a better understanding of what college academics entailed, and a recommendation from their professor. (The Dean at Chicago encouraged the rising seniors in the summer program to do that if they wanted to come to Chicago.) </p>
<p>Some paying programs are excellent, others less so. Some activities and volunteer positions fit a child's interests; others don't. My frustration is that there's few central sources or websites to pinpoint such opportunities. Some summer guides I bought focus more on camps than volunteer or academic opportunties. Mostly, I found things by searching on the web (and went through dozens of possibilities before finding one we thought would fit). Because of this haphazard searching, we missed deadlines for programs that we would have liked to look at more closely.</p>
<p>Has anyone found a particularly good guide or website to get a handle on this kind of thing?</p>
<p>Bandit -</p>
<p>From what you say, our son would probably have been happier and more challenged in the seven week Brown program. All in all, however, it wasn't a bad experience. He learned new things and is interested in Brown. Just wish I had understood more of the differences before we signed up.</p>
<p>Why is it displaying affluence for a parent to send a public school student to a non-free summer program to get opportunities not available at school, but it is not displaying affluence to send a child to a prep school where tuition is over $25,000 per year?</p>
<p>Cami, the issue is that the vast majority of families do not have the option.</p>
<p>Motheroftwo, at least for me, the private school issue is resolved, it's a disadvantage per how adcoms view kids, and mine go to one.</p>
<p>I have always wondered about the issue of young high schoolers taking REAL classes in REAL colleges. In this thread, some people mentioned the program at Duke and Brown falling in this category. Considering that those schools are among the most selective, I have no idea how a rising junior -let alone a rising sophomore- could perform at the level of college students and earn decent grades -unless the rumors about the rampant grade inflation at those schools are true. Unless a student is truly exceptional in a particular field, I think that the different expectations for high school and college work should be rather startling. </p>
<p>Accordingly, one of the negative impacts of attending such programs is that the grades earned WILL show up on the admissions' files. I am not sure if the mere attendance of attending an expensive or prestigious program will attract the scorn of adcoms, but poor grades will not be overlooked. As far as hoping that the attendance of ANY paid program is a bonus for admissions, your guess is as good mine. I would say that it does not play a large role -if any at all. There are many reasons for students to attend summer academic programs, but I believe that a boost in admissions should be the last on your list. </p>
<p>Lastly, I have a very negative opinion of trying to earn "credits" to start college on an advanced basis. I think that the entire cottage industry of summer programs, multiple AP, or dual-enrollment classes should be greatly limited. The colleges should impose EVEN MORE drastic limitations on the credits earned in non-college settings. No matter how we look at it, very few of the credits earned are really comparable in scope and difficulty. The real losers are the students who are robbed from a valuable COLLEGE experience. </p>
<p>While I understand that some find academic summer programs very valuable -if not indispendable- I am a firm believer that the summers should be spent as far from a school as possible. </p>
<p>Isn't there enough pressure during the remaining 9 months of the year? :)</p>
<p>Zagat -</p>
<p>I was an academically gifted kid who grew up in inner city Detroit. I had very few options, no help from my family, and worked my way through school. This was in the days before the federal government chipped in. Things worked out in the end ---I hold a Ph.D. from Brown. But the road was not easy. </p>
<p>I have fought my whole life to give my own family more opportunities. These programs and sending our children to a private school are a stretch for us. It means we live in a house that is a lot different than those of some of my son's classmates. Frankly, I couldn't care less. I only ask that I not be penalized by having clear priorities in terms of education. </p>
<p>Ironically, my daughter will be eligible for many of these opportunities. She is adopted and Hispanic, and I have found many free and low-cost programs we can apply to for her. With my son, we have pasted things together a summer at a time, and this summer added up to Chicago.</p>
<p>Yes, I am enormously grateful that I have resources that give me the luxury of choice. And I totally support giving a boost to minority and first generation applicants. If these had existed years ago, it would have really helped me. But to penalize me now for sending my kid to a summer program where he is working his head off because he loves biology is just plain nuts. And, no, I don't believe that admissions folk are that simplistic. I was a faculty rep on the admissions committee of a LAC and the process was far more complicated than that.</p>
<p>Xiggi -</p>
<p>Again, doesn't that desire vary from kid to kid? What if your son comes to you begging to be given the chance to attend such a program, at least for a few weeks in the summer? And, even if it's a stretch for you, you want to make that possible.</p>
<p>I just don't see how people can make blanket pronouncements for ALL children on the basis of their own preferences.</p>
<p>"I just don't see how people can make blanket pronouncements for ALL children on the basis of their own preferences."</p>
<p>Cami, nothing in my post constituted a blanket pronoucement for ALL children. I gave MY opinion on the subject. Nothing more, nothing less. By the way, did you happen to miss my penultimate sentence, "While I understand that some find academic summer programs very valuable -if not indispendable= I am a firm believer that the summers should be spent as far from a school as possible."</p>
<p>Xiggi, how did you spend your high school summers?</p>
<p>Xiggi,</p>
<p>Sorry! I was mainly taking issue with your last comment: "Isn't there enough pressure during the remaining 9 months of the year?" Hence, I mentioned the personal desire on part of the student to be part of such programs.</p>
<p>Like you, then, I think everyone's situation is different. Some kids are at schools where they are fully challenged, others at schools where they could stand to have more of a challenge....and many, like ourselves, are somewhere in-between. Sometimes a summer program can give a kid a look at a field of study or a group of students that will ignite his passion to learn. Other times, you really need the summer to sack out or do something unrelated to what you do during the school year. Surely, folk on admissions committees are savy enough to see that, and not apply an unbending blanket rule about what is good and bad in the summers, either in terms of individual student interests or cost.</p>
<p>BTW, your insights on the SAT are awesome. My son hopes to benefit from them with a retake later this fall.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am a firm believer that the summers should be spent as far from a school as possible.
Isn't there enough pressure during the remaining 9 months of the year?
[/quote]
Xiggi: My S's answer, as he is heading tomorrow for 6 weeks of math from morn to nearly night: No.</p>
<p>Marite~</p>
<p>I have a confession to make. When typing my last couple of posts, the first thought that crossed my mind was, "What will Marite and her son say?" No joke!</p>
<p>That is why I incorporated the "if not indispensable" comment. :)</p>
<p>Xiggi:
:). S1 went to music camp for 4 summers; 32 kids per cabin in the middle of nowhere, beds with sagging mattresses and not enough storage space, cold showers every day--this a kid who practically empties our hot water tank in the morning. He loved it as much as S2 will love being holed up in a dorm. De gustibus...</p>
<p>Zagat, my early high school summers were mostly occupied by traveling to sporting events and volunteering at sport camps. The last ones were similar, except for the addition of a couple of summer jobs and internships. However, I did attend a week long business program at Texas A&M between my Junior and Senior year.</p>
<p>I will only speak for myself, but the summer programs our kids have done were meant to broaden their view of the world. When you've lived in one place and attended one public school system, it's easy to believe that's the way things are done. Getting to meet other same age kids and explore something (whether it's canoeing or calculus) in another setting was the goal. As a parent, I never wanted my kids' college freshman experience to be their first time away from home. I also chose programs where I knewthey were safe and well cared for.</p>
<p>Our kids attend a less than stellar public school. There is no viable private alternative day school. Money is also an issue. Spending on summer programs works for us - it's cheaper than private school during the year and provides learning (in a broad living sense) opportunities that they can't get at home. I honestly couldn't care less what an admissions officer makes of it, but to put it in those terms, if a kid can demonstrate that they've grown from the opportunities they've had (in this case, summer programs) they should do all right in the 'sweepstakes'. I think if a student jumps from program to program without tying those experiences into other parts of their lives, it will show in their written essays or interviews. </p>
<p>By the way, son's summer programs (wilderness type) built on academic interests, provided leadership opportunities and he did quite well in the 'sweepstakes'. It was not planned; just turned out that way.</p>
<p>Thanks all, but I do consider it somewhat disturbing that those with opinions not in agreement felt the need to contact privately. Is there not the option for open discussion here?</p>