<p>Maybe people are reluctant to name specific programs publically.</p>
<p>On that one, I agree with you, zagat. In keeping with the "broadening one's view of the world" theme, it's not that interesting in hearing only from people with whom one agrees. Bring on the opposing views (politely, of course)!</p>
<p>In terms of those who cannot afford the programs, I make no apologies for sending my child anyway. There will always be people who cannot afford the things I can, and there will always be people who can afford things I cannot. It's all about choices - we don't take expensive vacations so we can send her to whatever program she wants, and ultimately whatever college she wants. Do I begrudge those who can do both, or who make other choices? No. Why should they begrudge me mine? I base going to these programs on my child's needs, wants and desires. What other parents do is up to them. And if an adcom looks down on her because she went to Cornell and earned 3 college credits as a rising junior, then so be it.</p>
<p>My family's situation, as far as a not stellar public school, is similar to what lefthandofdog described above. Both my kids attended summer programs according to their interests, and benefitted greatly from these experiences. My son was not sufficiently challenged academically by the math/science programs in our school, and benefitted from attending CTY and a Governor's School program. Meeting other students like himself for the first time was probably at least as beneficial as the content of the courses, which were also very worthwhile. My daughter is more of a humanities student, and she benefitted from spending a month in a language immersion class/homestay/cultural program in Spain last summer. As someone else mentioned above, I also wanted my kids to experience living away from home before going to college. I really don't think spending a large part of a summer studying in areas of interest is looked down upon by college admissions officers, whether the programs are free or fee-based. In any case, it is water under the bridge for my family, as both kids were accepted to schools they are happy to attend.</p>
<p>In the end, I hate that I'm even asking this question. If you can afford it, of course you should send your kids to summer experience that will be broadening and that they will enjoy. That said, several books and posts on boards like these have made me aware of the fact that adcoms have some prejudice against affluent kids. I've been reading Hank Herman's book and reached the part where he realized his son did not do what he "should have" summers. I've also talked to a poster here who goes to an elite prep school where they encourage kids not to go to costly summer programs. We can and should follow our passions, but at least for me, I want to understand potential consequences, especially as I'm dealing with kids with high expectations.</p>
<p>Zagat
[quote]
Bandit, when you say admitted everywhere, what schools do you mean?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Admitted to HYP, Columbia, Brown, Dart, AWS, Midd, Wellesley, Smith, MHC, Rice, UChicago</p>
<p>Ref: How can a HS student perform at these schools?<br>
First summer = 2 B's in Neuro 101 and Cognitive Learning
2nd Summer = 2 A's in Modern Middle Eastern History and Medicine, Law, and Morality</p>
<p>Yes, there is a Brown transcript to be submitted with the other transcripts when applying to colleges (at $5 a pop). No, we are not attempting to shorten her college career. Harvard wouldn't do it anyway. </p>
<p>Many students have been held back by the curriculm of their local schools. D was reading at a college level in 4th grade. Writing was exceptionally strong. She created and got board approval for several self paced courses during her HS career to fill in areas she wanted to study. There are other ways to gain knowledge. You don't have to go to an expensive program. By the way, Brown offers a significant discount ($1500) on the 2nd summer. </p>
<p>The ability to live on her own, to deal with roommates, to experience the freedom of a college campus and use it intelligently, were pluses that can't be quantified in dollars. In our personal situation, it was the best for her at the time.</p>
<p>She would have gone back to Brown this summer in a heartbeat, even with Harvard in the fall. I declined this time. She's studying on her own for her Harvard placement tests instead (and looking for a job!).</p>
<p>You Applied To Over 13 Schools???</p>
<p>She did. If you look at the list, only the 3 women's schools could be considered somewhat safe, and really only in aggregate. All others had less than 20% acceptance and several were under 10%. Every school had an attribute that made it a place she would be happy to spend her college career. She was sad at turning down almost all of them. In retrospect, there are only a couple she would not apply to now. Being deferred EA at Yale actually had the effect of adding UChicago. An EA acceptance would have terminated some of the late apps. As much as some people knock it, if you want to chase the lottery schools, it only makes sense to apply to all that you would be happy with.</p>
<p>My dauther is at Carnegie Mellon's PreSummer program, which appears to be well run and not at all like the way you described Brown's. The program she is in is theater, but there are academic programs as well.</p>
<p>Zagat, I don't know if this is the case, but your questions have made me wonder whether admissions people might expect a kid from a certain zip code, not applying for financial aid, to have spent their summers attending academic programs. I think it's possible some kids could be at a disadvantage if it appeared they had the opportunities (money or savvy) but instead spent their summers at the mall. If admissions is looking at a pool of applicants with the same top grades, scores, and in school ECs, they might turn to summer experiences to differentiate. Then they might weigh community service against academic/camp programs against holding down a job. </p>
<p>The trouble is that at least when I try to figure out how someone else thinks, it's neverending (and probably wrong). </p>
<p>Just to add to the confusion, I ran into an alum. interviewer for an ivy (also a friend), told him my daughter was doing an academic program this summer and indicated that I felt somewhat bad for her (her school ended Friday and she left Sunday, so had no break inbetween) and he said he interviews many students and asks how they spent last summer and is dismayed to hear "at the mall" or "at the beach". I think in the end you really can't make kids do these programs if they don't have the interest and ultimately lottery schools are lotteries, so we should do what we feel comfortable doing/can afford.</p>
<p>I know for a fact that the Princeton and Kenyon applications completed by my kids asked how the student spent their summer(s). For Kenyon, I know it said something like, "For example, working, volunteering, traveling, or in a study program" and I believe the Princeton one (3 years ago) was more open-ended. Regardless of whether the student attends a formal summer program, I believe colleges expect that the student does something productive for at least part of the summer.</p>
<p>D attended University of Maryland Summer Journalism Program (6 days).
Absolutely wonderful. Very very well supervised, sponsored by the Washington Post and U Maryland. Great experience and cheap. $550 soup-to-nuts. </p>
<p>File this one away for next year.</p>
<p>My daughter just returned from a summer program at Earlham college and had a terrific time. The program was extremely well supervised, the classes were challenging and taught by Earlham professors, and the school really tried to give attendees a sense of what life is like on a liberal arts college during the year. Nice extra: if your child ends up at Earlham, half of thesummer programtuition is automatically applied towards the first year's tuition.</p>
<p>For a different viewpoint, it may be good to revisit an old favorite:</p>
<p>"College admissions officers, especially those who admitted the parents of todays applicants, have an unusual vantage point from which to observe changes from one generation to the next. Many of us are concerned that the pressures on todays students seem far more intense than those placed on previous generations. College admissionthe chance to position oneself for "success" through the acquisition of the "right" college degreelooms large for increasing numbers of students. Particularly because selective colleges are perceived to be part of the problem, we want to do everything possible to help the students we enroll make the most of their opportunities, avoiding the much-reported "burnout" phenomenon that can keep them from reaching their full potential.</p>
<p>Bring summer back. Summer need not be totally consumed by highly structured programs, such as summer schools, travel programs, or athletic camps. While such activities can be wonderful in many ways, they can also add to stress by assembling "super peers" who set nearly impossible standards. Activities in which one can develop at ones own pace can be much more pleasant and helpful. An old-fashioned summer job that provides a contrast to the school year or allows students to meet others of differing backgrounds, ages, and life experiences is often invaluable in providing psychological downtime and a window on future possibilities. Students need ample free time to reflect, to recreate (i.e., to "re-create" themselves without the driving pressure to achieve as an influence), and to gather strength for the school year ahead." </p>
<p>The full article by William Fitzsimmons, Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid, Harvard College, Marlyn McGrath Lewis, Director of Admissions, Harvard College, and Charles Ducey, Director of the Bureau of Study Counsel, Harvard University is available at <a href="http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/prospective/applying/time_off/time_out.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/prospective/applying/time_off/time_out.html</a></p>
<p>Interesting!</p>
<p>But---isn't the whole idea of a 'summer vacation' an agrarian throw-back to times when almost all kids had to stop attending school to help with the field-work on the farm?</p>
<p>Certainly a change of pace and relaxation is useful and helpful. But, when I hear kids demanding their 'entitled months off' (to play video games, hang at the mall, etc.) I always think back to the origins (I believe) of those two and a half month breaks from school! lol</p>
<p>One other point - sometimes programs are necessary when both parents work full time, something that was more rare when the baby boomers were growing up. I was not about to allow my 15 year old to have two and a half months of unsupervised and unstructured "recreation". She had to find something to do. In our case, it was dance & academics.</p>
<p>We just got back yesterday from picking our son up at Duke's TIP program. I'll be honest, he initially wasn't thrilled about going. However, our older daughter had done two summers there and loved it. We felt he needed to do more this summer than playing video games, so we encouraged him strongly to enroll at TIP (where he naturally took Java for Video Games). Also, we felt that our daughter had a great transition to dorm life because she had experienced it on a short-term basis at TIP. Guess what? He had a great time and wants to go back next year. The program was well-supervised and there was an excellent balance between class time and free time.</p>
<p>Zagat - I tend to agree with lefthandofdog that adcoms probably expect more from kids who have more opportunity, including more financial opportunity.
That doesn't mean that they need to attend expensive programs, but they do need to demonstrtate that their summers have been "well spent", which could mean a variety of things depending on the student, as well as what a particular school may consider valuable. So I guess I don't see why colleges would look unfavorably on expensive programs - after all, most colleges offer them! </p>
<p>I am not sure that kids with priviledged backgrounds are in any way disadvantaged in college admissions (unless you think that higher expectations are a disadvantage)
It seems that if kids who have great financial and social advantages make use of their opportunities, their chances at top schools are excellent. That certainly has been my observation and experience.</p>
<p>My D spent 2 weeks with a German family as an exchange student. She is also going to the Oxford IB program at Harvard in a couple of weeks for the HL maths mid-IB 1 week class. She is a stellar student except for that HL math, so she will attempt to explain her the only C on her transcript by stating that she took this intensive class. </p>
<p>I only hope it helps with admissions.</p>
<p>i went to a few of these back in the day...I learned some good stuff in a few of them. but I found that most the people who attended were immature rich kids looking for a good time.</p>
<p>if you want an educational experience send your kid to your local community college, best 20 bucks spent on a class.</p>
<p>My daughter is attending the Harvard Summer program this year and I thought the OP might be interested in her experience thus far (1 week and a few days into the program). Because my husband and I both work full-time and because she could not drive herself anywhere until recently my d has always spent the summers away. For many years, she attended a camp that specialized in canoe tripping. After ninth grade (last summer), she decided that she did not want to return to camp and wanted to do something different. Based on information obtained at a summer fair and then at a local presentation, she decided to try the Excel program (<a href="http://www.goputney.com%5B/url%5D">www.goputney.com</a>). Although she enjoyed last summer very much, she wanted to do something a little more academic this year. Her first choice was the Oxbridge program (<a href="http://www.oxbridgeprograms.com%5B/url%5D">http://www.oxbridgeprograms.com</a>) because she wanted to go overseas but she hesitated to sign up because two other people from her school were going. When she finally decided to apply, she ended up on the waiting list with no real hope of getting in. We scoured the internet for other options
Due to her specific interests, it was very difficult to find a program that would provide both an academic and an arts course in her area of interest. She found both of these courses at the Harvard Summer program. Although it was not my first choice, due to some of the reasons posted earlier, I agreed. Interestingly, I had attended the HSSP when I was a rising senior in high school many years ago and I had wonderful memories of my summer! Anyway, the first five days of the program or so, I received a number of distressing phone calls. D had no friends, she did not click with her roommates (5 girls in her suite), everyone else was already in groups, everyone else was sitting with friends in the cafeteria and laughing while she was sitting all alone, etc., etc. Making matters worse, the course that she was really looking forward to consisted of mostly people who were over 30 and she was intimidated by the level of expertise expected. Because the summer program allows students to course shop the first week, D attended a number of courses and fell in love with one which, of course, was full. D had to go to the Dean of Students, drop her one class and be added to the waitlist of the one she wanted. She fretted all week and the Dean of Students told her she had only a 50/50 chance of getting in, so to be sure to try other courses which she did and which was a great experience. A few days into the program, I received a phone call from her saying that she realized she liked doing things by herself and that she was having a good time. She had found her way all around Cambridge (shopping
) and had spent lots of time in the bookstore. Fast forward a few days
.she has made a number of new friends, she likes her roommates, she made it off the waitlist into the course she wanted, the teacher of the course she dropped encouraged her to remain in the course and assured her she had the experience and expertise needed. Now when I call, she is too busy to talk to me! Because her courses (math and arts), are not as reading/writing intensive as some of her friends she has much more free time. To fill up her time, she has applied to work for the newspaper, she has joined the gym, gone on several local tours set up by the summer school (one in Boston, which she and a friend found boring so they signed out and took the subway back to campus alone), and she has found her way to the local stores (several times
). She accomplished most of this on her own (I admit, I did call the office to see if I could get her moved off the waitlist but that is a strictly first-come, first-served process). My D is very independent, creative, and bright but is also a very shy child. I feel these summer experiences are important to her because they help her overcome her shyness and strengthen her self-confidence. If she also learns something, thats a plus! While these programs are very expensive and we are not wealthy , I feel they provide her with great experiences and life-long memories. Those of you with children who are introverted can understand how very important these experiences can be.
For anyone considering this program, I will update later if you are interested (and if I can get any additional information from my D. When she was unhappy, the information flowed, now she gets off the phone as quickly as possible). At this point, I know that the rising sophomores live in a separate dorm (which is not accessible by the college students) and they have a strict curfew. No drinking or smoking allowed and I have not heard anything that would indicate that the type of behaviour described by Raichels daughter is occurring in my daughters dorm (and she would be upset as well). Each dorm has a proctor my Ds seems lovely upbeat, happy, and encouraging. There is a program office and an activities office. All the students eat in the same dining hall for all their meals. However, other than this, the students are pretty much on their own. They must find their own way to class and activities they can do lots or nothing at all. I am very proud of my D at this point. Actually, I am amazed at what she has accomplished and the new things she is trying in just a week and hope it continues.
One of the reasons that I dont like really short programs for children like my D, is that I dont think it gives them enough time to adapt and find their place. Although my D seems to have adjusted very well in a short period of time, in the past it has taken her much longer. I believe that each experience helps her adapt more easily to the next one. I hope that Raichels daughter has found friends and interesting activities. Personally, I agree with the recommendation made earlier to call the program office. I would also encourage your daughter to go places or join activities where she might meet friends she can relate to gym, bookstore, newspaper, etc. Hoping (for both of you) that this summer turns out to be a positive experience for her.</p>