Can anyone here explain the summer arch program to me? I have many concerns about the program, specifically the way it was presented at the senior visit day for accepted students. Does anyone have any information on the program? As it stands right now this might be a deal breaker (RPI was previously my top choice).
How was it presented to you?
From what I’ve read, you spend one summer on campus taking classes, and you spend one normal term doing an internship off campus.
To me, this seems like a way to relieve housing pressure, as it will reduce the number of on-campus students by 1/8th, every semester (assuming the internships are split between fall and spring semesters).
Summer Arch means you are placed with a company and you work for them during the Fall or Spring semester of your junior year. You take classes during the summer.
You can opt out if you want. I don’t see how it’s a deal breaker, but if you really don’t want a chance at helping your career/making money to pay for college since you don’t want to go to school over the summer, then you can still enroll and opt out. Summer Arch is “required,” but you don’t have to do it if that makes sense.
Similar programs are offered at Darthmouth and Northeastern. RPI has also offered a similar structure in prior years, but is formally implementing it now after seeing the results of earlier students participating.
For perspective: 100% of students that did a co-op last year got a job, they were all much happier being able to graduate on time and do that as well. The average pay was also between $20k and $35k for engineers… that’s A LOT of money. That doesn’t mean it’s going to be 100% in coming years since everyone is doing it, but they are hoping it’ll bolster the already really high job placement rates + signing bonuses/salaries.
Update: I made a mistake up there. I meant 20k to 35k for engineers for the year (so half for the co-op), not out of college! Didn’t want that to get mixed up since the lowest salary for any engineering grad was like 60k/year out of RPI last year lol… big difference from 35k
Okay my problem with the coop program is that it is trying too much to be like NorthEastern I purposely didn’t apply to NorthEastern because coop/ internships are not guaranteed to students. When they presented it they said that you might end up life guarding and scooping ice cream. That is not how you should introduce a program to a room of admitted students (some of which like me didn’t know this existed)! Going off of this there is no guaranteed placement in a coop. You could actually end up not doing anything. Also @joedoe they said nothing about it being “required” in air quotes. They said you had to do it unless you played a sport that was year round. I think that this is a crazy idea. Like what if I get an internship over the summer of my junior year or had multiple ones my freshman and sophomore year. I just don’t think that it has very well planned out. I know they are still doing the pilot program this summer and the next summer, but its hard to be the guinne pig for a program you are not 100% in favor of. @thshadow I didn’t view it in terms of housing and that is definitely an interesting point to make. Going off of how it was presented I explained part of it above, but in addition following the program they had a prof from the engineering program go on stage and said our students never have a problem getting coops and internships over the summer anyways which seemed to undermine the speech right before him about summer arches. Also the people who presented it talked a lot about how their is so much to do and how every person will ave a mentor that will take them out or tell them what they can do. You are a junior in college at this point! I personally will almost be 21, living in Troy for two year. I think that this should not of constituted 30 minutes of the hour long presentation. Like we do not have to be babysat. The entire presentation gave me a negative view and I think if it was optional it would be great!
I think it’s fine that they want / force students to get internships. I know that RIT does this too, probably others.
The reason I think it’s “housing” motivated is because they make you do the internship during the school year, and then take classes over the summer. It seems “normal” to just do the internship over the summer. My guess is that schools that structure it with the coop over the school year are having housing issues.
At least that’s the only explanation that I can think of…
@desperateplea I mean of course they’re not going to publically market you can opt-out… but it’s a thing. And yeah you’re not going to be guaranteed, but it’s not hard to find a co-op or internship at RPI lol. I got one freshman year with a 3.0 and good talking skills, plus several internship offers. I can see the concern though, but there are also other opportunities. You can study abroad and graduate early (it’s less expensive to do an exchange program than do a semester at RPI), you can do research at RPI with a professor (all research is paid), or you can volunteer and get a stipend (you’re guaranteed placement with federal volunteer agencies that’ll compensate up to 10k if you want it). So you’re not guaranteed a co-op, but you’re guaranteed something that’s not “scooping ice cream” if you want it. Also the pilot is very well organized, it’s not exactly like “hey go have fun finding a job”. Basically everyone doing this year got a co-op already since it’s optional, and RPI arranged for a free trip for 30 students to go to china in exchange for kids coming to RPI for free.
Granted, I see why you wouldn’t like it. I’d weigh your options, but don’t make the mistake of not attending RPI if you’re not considering equally reputable schools. The ROI of attending is way higher than “wasting a summer,” if that’s how you want to think of it and the curriculum here is way more rigorous then you’ll get elsewhere. Also, you’ll find that as an undergraduate that advisors are great resources. They’re not there to baby you but to help you find job resources and form concentrations that’ll make you employable out of college or get you into grad school. College students, even though they’re adults, don’t exactly have the same knowledge as an expert in their field would. Also, some students may choose to scoop ice cream or life guard. Another point behind the program is you get six months to do whatever you want. You can start a business or pursue a passion. I love the program since it allows you those opportunities in a broad sense. There’s also not much of a difference in the academic calendar in terms of graduation. Taking classes over the summer versus the fall with only rising juniors would have a sick social scene and Troy is definitely nicer in the summer than the fall when you have to deal with winter. Granted, that’s my perspective. If you’re very concerned called the school, say it’s a deal breaker, and say you want to opt-out and see what they say. I’m 110% certain they allow that since I personally helped get opt-outs set up for some students this year for student government.
@thshadow RPI doesn’t having a housing problem, but a problem finding students on-campus housing. Everyone is guaranteed housing, but not on-campus after sophomore year (which I never understand why people want so badly since it’s three or four times the price of an off-campus apartment). It definitely helps free up space, but even if they didn’t do summer arch they would just throw them off campus a few blocks away anyway so it’s not too big of a difference. The bigger picture is encouraging startups, study abroad, research, and personal interests. A lot of kids can also make a lot more money to help pay for school in six months than two so that’s also a thing if someone needs it.
Also to elaborate, RPI didn’t get summer arch from northeastern. We’ve had a summer class/co-op program structure since forever, they’re just expanding it a lot to include not just engineers and giving it a new name/making it mandatory.
I think that there is a big difference between an optional summer class/coop program and a mandatory one. NorthEastern also has a mandatory coop structure. With RPI and NorthEastern ranked similarly it seems like RPI is trying to attract some of their students by having a mandatory coop program and trying to even the male to female ratio, but @joedoe I really liked the way you explained it in post #6. I just think who ever presented it at admitted students day did a terrible job at it. Lol they should have you go up there and do it instead! I am still considering RPI considering it is the best engineering school I applied to. Could I PM you with questions I have about the school?
Thanks you guys for the help
@desperateplea You’re welcome to message me any questions in general about RPI or college! And thank you lol, if only people communicated properly. And yes, they’re trying to even the ratio for sure lol - but that’s another rant altogether.
The summer Arch program is a way to increase the student body without adding capital resources and using what is there more efficiently. It will also give the staff more classes to teach in the summer. I expect to see at least a 10% growth in the number of students accepted and going to RPI within the next four years. This also means that the $ for merit scholarships is watered down for more students, but should be replaced and helped by the upcoming capital campaign.
The communication of the Summer Arch program has not been well thought out.
I tend to agree with @thshadow and @AuntCharlotte that a motivating factor for the Summer Arch may be housing related. Making it a requirement for students to live and dine on campus in the summer also generates more revenues for the school. A record number of freshmen were enrolled last year and the record could be broken again this year. Looks like some upperclassman housing have been redesignated for the incoming Class of 2021 freshmen and that must be putting a strain on the amount left for upperclassmen.
@joedoe I do see your point about the available of off-campus options but some students may rather not deal with the extra effort required to figure out what to do and would be content with going through the lottery system for on-campus housing. I read elsewhere that Sophomores housing assignments are in limbo right now pending enrollment of the incoming Freshmen Class. Since Sophomores are guaranteed on-campus housing, it seems the only thing left to do is to force half of the Juniors to spend a semester away in the Fall and Spring through Summer Arch to free up some additional housing. Also, I though the program is being slowly phased in over the next two years and that you are only allowed to opt out from now until when it becomes mandatory in the summer after the Sophomore year (summer of 2019) for the Class of 2021. Was there a policy change based on recent feedback?
@psfk2417 From what I’m aware, you can opt out, but there’s a process. I don’t know exactly how easy the process is, but in all honesty it’s not very hard to convince RPI if you make up a story and send them a letter. I’ve done it plenty of times, including when I got in and they didn’t initially give me money to attend. The Student Senate is currently working to try and make it easier to get waivers for Summer Arch.
In terms of sophomore housing, it’s not in limbo. There have been waitlists many times over the past several years. There is enough space to house all freshman and sophomores (even if the class sizes are 1,700 each) and still have room for an upperclassman hall on campus. Also, upperclassman housing wasn’t exactly re-designated… they weren’t supposed to be living in those halls to begin with. There’s a junior current living in my stack in Quad, and he shouldn’t be there in all honesty. There are plenty of off-campus dormitories for upperclassman that have been traditionally offered, that are both cheaper, larger, and literally a few blocks away from campus. And it seems cruel, but this is what they do at most universities to begin with.
An interesting article from Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/denalitietjen/2015/07/31/behind-guaranteed-housing-promises-colleges-with-the-lowest-dorm-capacities/#2d9eced975aa
In terms of what to do, I don’t see that as an excuse and neither does the school. If you aren’t willing to put in the effort to get an internship or co-op or find something else, like a job to pay for college or a volunteer opportunity - then why even enroll at RPI? Why put the effort into your classes in the first place? Why sign up for undergraduate research? Education isn’t just in the classroom, it’s experiential. The few students that don’t enroll since they don’t want to do Summer Arch won’t exactly impact the school financially or the yield substantially. Many of the students admitted this year, at least from what I heard from interactions with administrators, have stated that they were specifically interest in Summer Arch and the creation of similar mandatory programs at other schools also didn’t really impact yield/other metrics.
Granted, it is a way for them to make money and expand the student body. I’m not going to discredit that, but that’s not the sole motivation behind the program. I’ve interviewed Professor Schadler, the person in charge of the program at the moment, on behalf of an on-campus organization and I really do believe the money is not the sole driver of this program.
In terms of the communication side of things, you’re completely right. They’re working on it though and there has been a lot of discussion between student government, the newspaper, and the administration about the changes. I’ve seen stances shift more towards “optimistic” from “pessimistic” in both bodies following communication with the Institute on the issue. Another step has also been redoing the website, which should be complete by Fall 2017.
@joedoe
Thanks for the info and the link to the interesting article from Forbes.
What do you make of the data showing 4 of the 5 HYPSM schools having an overcapacity of beds?
@psfk2417 They all have endowments exceeding 10 billion dollars from what I’m aware, with small student bodies. They can afford to do that so it’s not really a valid comparison. A school like RPI with a roughly $700 million endowment can’t afford to do that. The same goes for Tufts, Northwestern, Northeastern, Lehigh, CWRU (not listed, but similiar capacity) and other similar schools that just don’t have the money to do it. It’s great, and they’re very fortunate they can do it though. The “excess” goes to graduate students in this case.
@joedoe I totally forgot about the grad students. Thought they just let the beds go empty instead of enrolling more undergrads.
@joedoe to once again clarify I think that the presentation that we were given at an admitted students day caused the program to seem like a waste of time. Now, after hearing more about it, of course it isn’t a deal breaker. I just think that kind of throwing a bunch of information about a program most people in the room didn’t know about prefacing it with you can be a life guard or scoop ice cream was not a good idea. They also over emphasized how they will organize events with you and some ridiculous things that students should be able to do by themselves instead the actual work experience you would gain in the future.
@desperateplea I’m somewhat concerned about who gave the presentation, but I’m glad I cleared some of this up.