Fair but OP was offered $21 and a healthy living allowance, likely fine no matter where - not $7 or $10. They were even given dorm possibilities so it likely works.
It’s easy for colleges to say never take the first offer.
If you have no experience, you have little leverage.
Even full time jobs companies won’t negotiate. My son tried given the same career center advice. In his case, they have 150 kids in the program he joined. It’s a very large leadership development with kids all over the country. The engineers all make the same. The supply chain $6k less and the Health/Safety kids a level down from there. The only variable is location. He gets a location premium in some cities - like Irvine is $700 more a month, Seattle $300. I know - not enough. He’s at a Fortune 300.
Smaller companies may have more room to wiggle.
On the other hand, a Fortune 50 - a desperate Fortune 50 - raised its offer $13k and the sign on by $5k when he said no. That was not a negotiation as they initiated the counter. I say desperate because his first interview was in the AM and the offer in the PM. Two top companies did that.
In that case they clearly had a range and lowballed. I think their job had a smaller cohort and they were not successful recruiting.
Companies tend to have fixed compensation for entry career in my experiences. But I know other industries may be different.
Unless she’s making money year round, taxes are not only not a major concern but likely a zero concern. In most states, she’ll get back the state taxes and she’ll definitely get back the federal in April. My kid paid MS and got it all back at tax time.
Only ss and Medicare would be lost.
She won’t earn near enough to have tax implications. Maybe a few states have pay on all $$ but that would still be minimal.
This is not true at all. I guess it could be true for some fields. But again, some internships pay nothing, some pay ok and some pay well. But most full-time jobs pay much better than internships. Engineering students make far better salaries after they graduate than they do as interns.
So the answer is it depends. If you asked the majority of college students if they would take this deal I bet most would sign today.
But it’s the learning that’s more important.
A few years ago my sons great internship got canceled due to Covid… Remember that when all these kids got canceled.
He pivoted and did an engineering internship in Israel. Mostly funded through an organization for housing /food but no pay at the company. It was a known company in R&D. He got a credit card for meals.
But the experience was invaluable. His experience led to his current job out of college which he will be living the next 3, years abroad in Scandinavia with paid housing.
I also wouldn’t try to negotiate on an internship,unless something was really amiss. It sounds like a very fair offer to me regardless of location. I wouldn’t look a gift horse as they say.
Also don’t overlook the experience they get. That is very key. This will mean more then any fee paid. If it’s not what your child wants to do then move on. But just about any internship you should be able to gain insight and experience from.
Do not encourage your kids to try and negotiate an internship-- especially one that includes a sign on bonus and what appears to be a living wage.
The last three dozen times a candidate told me “everything is negotiable” I smiled into the phone and said “not this!”
You aren’t haggling over a teapot at a garage sale. Companies benchmark and calibrate their salaries constantly. A prospective summer intern has zero leverage (so no upside) and tons of downside.
“Dad, the first thing they teach you here is never accept the first offer.” This is terrible advice. Sometimes the first offer is extraordinarily better than the post-negotiated deal, and it takes a LOT of maturity to recognize that. For new employees, who understandably don’t have that maturity, parental wisdom can go a long way.
I’ve had candidates negotiate against themselves. I’ve had candidates reject fantastic packages over something trivial. Unless the D is being taught by an expert FBI hostage negotiator, she should ignore this advice. MANY times the first offer is the best offer and the dialogue only goes downhill from there…
I’ve never had an intern try to negotiate but I’d be tempted to just tell them forget it if they did. The last few young full time hires have tried to negotiate all (later) citing that same advice about never accepting the first offer. Well I don’t play games, I offer what I consider fair, and I find the negotiation a real turn off. I rarely negotiate anything different than I offered upfront (maybe once) and it just leaves everyone with a bad taste. I now start all interviews with here is the salary I’m going to offer for this job (or here is the range) is that acceptable to you. First question. But no way I’m negotiating with an intern ever. Interns are a lot of work and honestly I’d rather skip having one than one who’s going to start off negotiating with me (but I don’t work in business or engineering or computer science or a lot of other fields do it obviously may differ).
My junior just got her first offer after all of her interviews, $24 an hour plus housing in Hartford CT, $500 bonus if she accepts within 2 weeks (she won’t be), 3 days in person, 2 virtual, bonus depending on how many actuary exams she passes by summer. It’s only 2 hours from home but I’m hoping for one in Manhattan so she can commute.
1- I need you to gross up my moving allowance for tax purposes. (We offer a flat rate for new grads. Most of them have a futon, a few cartons of books, and some kitchen stuff. So hire a mover? It will cost 1K and you pocket the rest. Rent a U-haul and move yourself? It will cost $500, plus gas, and you pocket the rest. You are already making thousands of dollars on our generous moving package and you want MORE?
2- I need you to cover my airport club costs. I explain that when you travel on company business, you will be using a company credit card which already includes the airport club. But no, candidate wants us to cover the club costs so when they fly to Cancun for their buddies bachelor party they don’t have to wait at the gate and buy their own coffee. That’s a hard no.
3- “you subsidize public transportation or pay for parking. I need both since some days I’ll take the subway and some days I’ll want to drive”. Another hard no. Pick one.
4- “I need dental insurance since I’m planning on getting veneers”. I explain that we already HAVE dental insurance. Candidate explains that yes, he read the brochure, but it doesn’t cover cosmetic dentistry. I explain that he can call benefits to find out if his HSA can be used for cosmetic dentistry-- but no- he wants it in the offer letter that we will pay for veneers. You can guess how that went.
5- For interns: “The offer letter doesn’t guarantee me a fulltime job”. Me- “That’s right. You’ll work here for 10 weeks, and both parties can decide if we want to make it permanent”. Intern- “I’m afraid that won’t work for me. I can’t waste my summer on a company that won’t guarantee me a job next year”. Me- “It’s been super great getting to know and good luck!”
I could go on for hours. But you get the point. This is all crazy talk coming from a 20 or 21 year old!
My kids got paid practically nothing for their freshman and sophomore summer internships. I subsidized their living expenses. But when it came to their junior summer internships they knew those internships were leading to potential full time jobs when they graduated. They would not have gotten their junior summer internships if they didn’t have previous experiences.
We just made full time job offers to our summer interns. They’ll be coming back to similar jobs they have performed over the summer and their salaries will be the same as their summer internship salaries (plus some inflation or adjustment).
I have worked with interns across many different companies and it has been a fairly standard practice.
OP - you daughter should ask the potential employer if the internship would lead to a full time position when she graduates. If the answer is “maybe,” then ask what’s the % of interns that get an offer. If internship is just a way for the company to get smart, cheap labor then maybe should consider other companies.
While I agree I probably wouldn’t agree to any of those requests either, I honestly don’t mind anyone, even interns trying to negotiate for more. It’s a good life lesson, trying to figure out your actual worth. I have no problems saying no to something above what I think someone is worth, and I’m honestly happy for them if they can get more elsewhere. If I mind myself missing out on great candidates b/c my rate is too low, I adjust.
I think some kids definitely overestimate their worth, but that’s part of the process as well.
Agree with everything you’ve posted but I doubt the company is getting “smart cheap labor”. First of all- the wages seem fair. Second- it is VERY time intensive to train an intern, even the ones who think they already know everything. In addition to being able to perform the job, there are startup and onboarding costs for someone who is just a temporary hire.
They need computer access, they need to go through all the training modules on “here are our document retention policies; this is what our compliance department does”. And HR needs to do a background check (most corporate employees won’t need a security clearance- except for some aerospace/DOD type companies) but you still need to verify that the person doesn’t have a felony for assaulting their boss at their last job.
These are a lot of hoops to jump through to save a few bucks on labor! Especially since some percentage will not be that productive.
Everyone needs to learn certain core facts about the world of work.
Benefits- no company is going to put into place an entire special benefits package for one person. This is not a thing. There are HSA’s which cover things that the health care plan doesn’t cover; there are benefits hotlines to call to make sure something is covered before you tell your plastic surgeon “go ahead with the botox, it’s covered” if it isn’t. But no company is creating an entirely different category of covered procedures for one person.
Compensation- there are bands. Some of the bands are wide and some are narrow, but your placement within the bands is NOT a function of how loudly you yell or negotiate, and usually a function of your level of experience (and once you start, your performance). You are not going to jump to a higher band because your college told you “never take the first offer”.
The reason I used “cheap” labor is because there were quite a few posts about how full time job pays a lot more. Therefore if a new graduate is going to be doing similar kind of work as summer interns, why should those rates be so much lower? Summer internship is try and buy, and it’s why we are willing to invest all the onboarding time/effort. It would be hard for me to believe that a new graduate would have so many new skills than a summer intern. Why you wouldn’t pay them the same as a new graduates.
If the company wasn’t offering a generous sign on bonus, which in this case they are, I would advise the student to ask the company to possibly help out with flights to and from school/home if he/she lives very far away and few thousand $$ with housing.
When my kids were doing internships, we lived abroad, so my kids did ask if they could take a day or two around July 4th to come home. Their employers were very accommodating.
Again, the important thing is what would this summer internship lead to. My younger daughter was a philosophy major, even for her most of good jobs were spoken for by the fall or xmas of senior year.
Interns are a ton of work - so are new hires but the idea is a new hire is going to stick around and therefore the 3-6 month learning curve is going to be worth the time spent training and mentoring them. It sounds like your kids had internships that led to jobs in the same company; that’s not necessarily the norm where I work. Therefore an intern has to be really worth it before I’m going to bother with them - I don’t have to have interns so it had better be mutually beneficial or I’m just not going to bother that year.
I should add, my kid - in an arts field - got room and board plus roughly $100/week for 50-60 hour work weeks in her summer internship last summer (it was roughly half the summer). She learned a ton and had a wonderful time and we are both grateful she had the opportunity.
It is a lot of work to manage interns and new graduates. Most managers usually do not want to do it. I have always raised my hand because it is a good pipeline for us get new employees.
I tend to run it like a boot camp.
At least in theory, another year or two or three of college should improve the skills and knowledge of the person, so that a college graduate is theoretically more capable of more types of work than when they just completed frosh, soph, or junior year in college.
If not, then why would the employer not try to hire those who just completed frosh, soph, or junior year in college as regular employees instead of temporary interns? Or make a regular job offer on the spot as the intern is completing the summer if they like the intern?
But then the implication of not paying new graduates more than interns is still that your employer does not believe that a student who has completed junior year in college will gain any skills or knowledge that your employer considers worth paying for by spending another year in college and graduating, correct?
