Hi everyone. I’m a freshman and I recently received a job offer from a startup real estate brokerage firm in NYC that is unpaid, but has a performance bonus. However, in the offer letter, they did not specify the commission percentage or anything.
After talking to my parents, I realized that I wouldn’t be able to pay for living costs for the summer unless I receive some type of guaranteed pay. To be honest, I find it difficult to believe that they wouldn’t have the funds or flexibility to pay me something, especially considering the quantity of work I’d be doing in a small team setting. How do I go about negotiating a salary, or at least a guaranteed stipend?I really want this internship. Thanks
They may have the money but choose to not spend it. They probably can get endless number of interns if you turn them down.
@lostaccount so do you think they would be offended if I even brought it up? i’ve read mixed reviews, but most people have been saying it doesn’t hurt, and some employers actually see negotiation skills as a plus.
If you can’t take the internship without it, tell them so. Not everyone can afford to do unpaid or spottily paid internships.
Tell them you can’t afford the internship if they don’t pay you a base salary (like $8-10/hour + bonus, which is low for NYC).
Ask for the performance bonus percentage to be put in writing, too.
It’s not unheard of to see companies use interns for free labor. If something 's not in writing, don’t count on it.
Do you have alternative plans?
@intparent @MYOS1634 How do I go about initiating the conversation? I don’t have much leverage because I don’t have any other paid internship options. I could start out by saying that I’m already doing an unpaid online internship on top of this one. Should I do some research on salary levels on Glassdoor?
@MYOS1634 Also if I tell them I can’t take the internship without them paying me a base salary, do you think they would be offended and rescind my offer? Is it worth taking the risk?
Yes, it’s worth taking the risk, because you can’t afford their offer anyway. During the summer after freshman year, you’re not expected to have a fantastic internship. You’re expected to do something. You could work at Walmart for $10 an hour and take a fun class at a local community college (or a dreaded class). Could be handling the concession stand at the lake/beach near home and improving your guitar playing skills.
An internship in NYC worth it’s salt will be paid.
BTW, speaking about ANOTHER commitment of yours when they certainly expect you to focus solely on theirs would be a fauxpas.
You call and say 'hello, this is Tom, you offered me an internship for this summer, but I can’t take it unless I have some money for my costs of living.
I’m not sure whether it’s normal, but nowhere in the contract is my base pay listed, nor what the percentage for my commission would be. I have another opportunity but yours is my favorite - without an idea of whether it’s financialky doable I’m stuck. Would you mind faxing/emailing me the missing details to me At…
How do I leverage this? I attend a top 20 school but other than that I don’t have much to offer since I’m a freshman with little to no experience in finance yet.
You keep ignoring what people are saying and just repeating yourself. Everyone has given you excellent advice and the poster above told you literally exactly what to say.
You can’t leverage jack, because you have pretty much no skills yet, even if you think your college is competitive. There are surely hundreds of kids they’ll take instead of you if they don’t want you anymore, but you literally CANNOT AFFORD to take the internship without pay, so either you suck it up and ask or have to resign regardless. Do exactly what posters have suggested, and if it doesn’t work out oh well.
Okay to be honest, the main problem I have is not necessarily the living costs so much as my parents don’t believe there is an incentive to me taking an internship summer after freshman year. I personally am grateful for this unpaid opportunity. From what I know, I don’t think spending ~$3000 is extremely financially troubling for my family. They just don’t believe that the $3000 is worth investing in for an internship that isn’t at a big, prestigious firm–an opinion that is misinformed and biased, I am aware. They just really want me home for the summer. So I’m trying to make the situation so that there is nothing to lose by taking this internship, hence asking for a base salary.
So do you think that taking this internship unpaid is worth it, and I should try to convince my parents once more, or do you think I should risk them rescinding my offer by asking for a base salary?
The issue is not whether you can afford anything. It is ILLEGAL for a company not to pay you at least minimum wage. That is all the leverage you need. If they rescind the offer, the offer was not worth accepting in the first place.
@chrisw but unpaid internships are legal, as long as they follow the six rules (http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/employment-law-and-human-resources/unpaid-internship-rules.html). but i’m not going to get into a legal fight with them about that. Based on my judgment of her, I could see the HR person being either very stubborn and unyielding, or be too lazy to argue with me, and throw me some cash. But either way, how do I reply to a response such as “You should have known it was unpaid to begin with,” or “You’re only working a 30 hour work week, so you should have time to find a part-time job”?
Well, you can say that you knew it was unpaid but you didn’t realize you’d be doing something illegal if you accept an unpaid job where you provide an actual service where the employer makes money but doesn’t pay you minimum wage, and that for your college an unpaid internships ALSO needs to be “for credit” and meet educational value criteria, or be paid. So, if they say they won’t pay you, don’t go further - they were just trying to exploit you as the ultimate cheap (free) labor.
Who is going to pay your $3000 if your parents don’t? I would NOT bring up the legality. Sorry, but they will find a way to rescind if you do. Have that fight after the internship if you must. Bringing it up on the front end won’t help you. If you don’t have $3000 in the bank and your parents won’t bankroll you, then you need to ask for a salary. If they won’t do it, I presume you will have to turn it down. Those seem to be the facts.
@MYOS1634 I agree with @intparent , I don’t think questioning the legality is the right approach. That will undoubtedly illicit a offended reaction. Should I straight up ask for a housing stipend? Or minimum wage base salary? Which is more reasonable?
^I agree.
What I see here is that OP really, really wants to be in NYC and thinks it’s so cool s/he got an internship as a freshman, even if unpaid, so that parents have to bankroll that to the tune of $3,000 (perhaps more depending on rental costs and how frugal OP is).
The parents don’t see why they should pay for OP to work, when he could just earn a minimum wage or be at home and at least not costing.
OP doesn’t see where the problem is since his/her parents have money and it’s an internship in the City!!
OP doesn’t want to turn down the internship and hopes something will make it worth the $3,000 expense. Instead, posters here suggested he ask for a salary.
OP doesn’t want to ask because odds are that s/he’ll be turned down. And then what? Bye bye internship. So, OP would rather preserve the illusion of having an unpaid internship, even if it’s not possible to have one.
OP’s trying to find a way, any way, that anyone will say “go ahead and spend the summer in the city on your parents’ dime”, but the reality is that either he asks to be paid (and OP’s been provided with advice as to how to ask and why) or or he turns down the internship (which sounds like camouflaged work doing brokers’ job, BTW, since OP would be paid “on commission” but nothing’s in writing, including the amount/percentage of commission or existence of aforementioned commission…)
@pianogeek: it’s simple: ask to be paid (even a stipend + commission, put in writing). If they say no, find something else. If they say yes, jump for joy and start packing. However, having an internship isn’t necessary freshman year and there are probably real estate agencies that would gladly let you get a paid job with them in your hometown.
Yes, tell them that you really can’t take the internship unless your expenses are covered, and ask if that is possible. You can’t just conjure the money to pay for it (although $3000 seems low for a summer in NYC to me, honestly).
@MYOS1634 hahaha to be honest, I suppose that’s an accurate description of my thoughts. But in my opinion and others’, I still think an unpaid internship is worth the investment as a freshman, especially in a field that is heavily related to my career goals. Just having trouble convincing my parents of this view. I think I will start by asking for a housing stipend.