<p>I have started looking into these programs for our 14 year old son. I have been surprised, so far, at the number of parent comments in the archives about the pot smoking that is done on these trips, the number of inner city kids who bullied others & caused trouble, etc. They lamented the lapses of supervision of the kids on these trips, which surprised & troubled me. These programs are expensive. They are billed as 'life changing' and 'character building'. What is the real truth?</p>
<p>I can’t speak about NOLS or Outward Bound, but our family’s experience with the Teen Wilderness trips through the Appalachian Mountain Club in NH have been quite positive, with strong, present leadership and team building among trip participants. In a total of 4 trips, there have been none of the negative experienced you are alluding to.</p>
<p>I highly recommend the AMC.</p>
<p>Don’t know where you’re located, but my kids did the Teen Trek program at Coppercreek Camp in California: [Coppercreek</a> Camp - California Summer Camp - TREK and Junior TREK](<a href=“http://coppercreek.com/trek_camp.asp]Coppercreek”>http://coppercreek.com/trek_camp.asp)
I thought it was expensive, but it doesn’t look to be any more expensive than Outward Bound, maybe less. It was definitely a good value for the money. My kids had a fabulous experience. They did a little bit of everything - backpacking, kayaking, you name it. No drugs, no alcohol, very well supervised, great group of kids. Plus it’s considered a leadership program, so they had to show their faces in the main camp occasionally and be role models for the younger campers.</p>
<p>I don’t have personal experience, either, but re: NOLS, investigated it for one of our kids and turned up all positive reports from friends and professionals in the outdoors education arena. I would be shocked to learn it was poorly supervised and especially to the extent there was pot smoking. NOLS is considered the leader in safety training. I did an archives search here and didn’t find the source posts you’re relying on–did see many personal thumbs up posts.</p>
<p>I did an Outward Bound program when I was 14. It was really challenging physically and mentally. I’m glad I did it but for reasons that I wouldn’t have expected before I did the program. </p>
<p>When we were registering for the program initially, I had to do a phone interview to basically say that my parents weren’t forcing me to do it. I’ve always been into outdoor activities, so I was very enthusiastic about it. I had wanted to do an Outward Bound program for years.</p>
<p>But most of the people in my group had been forced to do it by their parents. One guy had stolen a car. There was no pot-smoking and relationships were highly discouraged. But I’ll admit that the whole experience was quite a shock to me, because I was really naive and sheltered beforehand. There were a lot of strong personalities in my group. The memory that stands out the most to me is standing on the peak of a mountain, fighting over whether to keep going and put miles behind us or spend the night there. The instructors wanted us to work it out for ourselves, so they stood to the side. Yelling ensued. We ended up fleeing down the mountain in the middle of the night, because there was a thunderstorm.</p>
<p>Physically it was grueling. We all wanted to leave after the first couple of days. Carrying a pack full of stuff up and down mountains is no easy thing. I did a three week course, so that was three weeks without a shower or washing clothes. We were all dirty, smelly, and covered in bug bites. By the end of the three weeks, I was in really good shape though. I was comfortable carrying my pack long distances. At the end of the course, we went to the basecamp and did a physical challenge with all of the other outward bound courses that had been out that week. It was a 7.5 mile race. I had never run more than 2 miles at a time, but I did it, and I did it well. I was so proud of myself and had a great sense of accomplishment.
I don’t know if that helps. That was my experience with outward bound. I’m sure that all of the programs vary a lot. I’m glad I did it, but it wasn’t quite what I expected. I think the programs probably vary a lot by age as well. If I were to do a course now (five years later), I’m sure it would be a completely different experience.</p>
<p>When does your son turn fifteen? Would he be interested in a service program? The Student Conservation Association [National</a> Conservation Crews | The SCA - Student Conservation Association](<a href=“http://www.thesca.org/serve/national-crews]National”>http://www.thesca.org/serve/national-crews) is an outstanding program and was certainly for my daughter “life changing” and “character building”. Cost is also minimal-travel expenses and, if you don’t have them, the cost of a backpack, sleeping bag, and steel-toed shoes.</p>
<p>My son did Outward Bound when he was 14. It was an extremely positive experience for him. Physically and mentally demanding. No pot smoking, no bullies. If I could send him again I would. It was worth every penny.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone, for the suggestions. It is also good to hear about positive experiences. To answer someone’s question above, I did a seach on Outward Bound & NOLS on CC and came up with comments such as the following (amid other very positive comments from others):</p>
<p><<my son=“” did=“” an=“” outward=“” bound=“” program=“” a=“” few=“” yrs=“” ago=“” in=“” boston=“” harbor.=“” my=“” advise=“” to=“” you=“” is=“” check=“” out=“” the=“” kids=“” they=“” enroll.=“” this=“” one=“” consisted=“” of=“” may=“” inner=“” city=“” and=“” there=“” were=“” alot=“” problems;=“” bullying,slurs=“” even=“” assalts.=“” two=“” boys=“” expelled=“” during=“” these=“” known=“” administration.=“” all=“” it=“” was=“” great=“” experience=“” but=“” could=“” have=“” been=“” run=“” supervied=“” much=“” better.=“”>></my></p>
<p>There was also a comment about a 30 day NOLS trip in Wyoming with some of the same problems. And then there was this:</p>
<p><<my oldest=“” son=“” did=“” a=“” 2=“” week=“” outward=“” bound=“” in=“” the=“” northern=“” cascades=“” wa=“” summer=“” after=“” sophomore=“” year.=“” it=“” was=“” pivotal=“” time=“” for=“” him=“” because,=“” when=“” he=“” got=“” tired,=“” and=“” sore,=“” full=“” of=“” blisters,=“” lonely,=“” annoyed=“” at=“” pot-smokers=“” on=“” trip,=“” etc.,=“” considered=“” quitting…=“”>></my></p>
<p>I am still considering these programs, but I was surprised to read these comments. I don’t know where to turn besides CC for the real truth.</p>
<p>There are summer camps that focus on wilderness trips that can provide some of the same experience without the “baggage” you are describing. For example, there are a couple of YMCA camps in our state (MN) – Widjiwagan and Menogyn that have backpacking or canoeing options. One of my kids did it for a few summers (canoeing for about 2 weeks on her last trip). It was a great wilderness experience with a small group and experienced counselors. The kids plan their routes, pack their own food, make camp and cook, etc. Check out whether there is anything like that in your area. D has moved on to an academic summer program that she loves, but she thinks of her camp experience very fondly (suggested the other day that she give up school and just do camps and ECs all the time instead so she can do everything she wants to!).</p>
<p>agree with intparent – there are good alternatives that also cost less. </p>
<p>check out this program in Colorado. my son did it twice & loved it. if you’re interested, PM me.
[CYP</a> Teen Adventure Camp: ages 15-17, Boulder, CO](<a href=“http://coloradoyouthprogram.org/teen_adventure_camp/index.htm]CYP”>http://coloradoyouthprogram.org/teen_adventure_camp/index.htm)</p>
<p>OP, what are you seeking in a summer program? Are “life changing” and “character building” your main objectives? Or are all types of trips (e.g., fun, “community service,” learning, etc) also under consideration?</p>
<p>Good question, DougBetsy. We are looking for a safe, well-supervised place for our son to spend as much of the summer as possible surrounded by ‘positive influence youth’, as someone once said to me. He is a good kid but is influenced by the culture of the peer group around him. Last year, I was astonished that some camps & even college campus summer programs fell woefully short in the supervision department. So now we are thinking that a better bet may be long-term programs out in the true outdoors. My son is well-equipped to handle such programs & does enjoy the outdoors. </p>
<p>We would love to have it be based on community service…highly prefer it, in fact… but so far, things like SCA require a kid to be in high school currently…our son is in 8th grade and so would not qualify, even though he is old enough. We have found that the overseas programs tried to date are less supervised than domestic ones, & that underage alcohol etc in other countries tends to be very available. </p>
<p>We do plan to have a canoe camp as part of the summer…a wonderful & very good suggestion. But he can’t canoe all summer…we need something else too…his summer break is extremely long & unstructured time at home is just not good for my son right now.</p>
<p>I believe the NOLS camp is very different from a YMCA or fun teen camp with a very different objective. Not sure you are comparing apples to apple there.</p>
<p>I lived in wyoming for most of my life and heard nothing but good things about NOLS. I do not have any personal experience but am surprised to hear the comments you listed. I know a few adults who did leadership training at NOLS and had nothing but praise for those programs. But that is not the teen program.</p>
<p>A quote that I think fits NOLS is:</p>
<p>NOLS is specifically <em>not</em> a place for a troubled teen. Instead, it is a place for (in their words) ‘‘highly motivated students’’. It is an outdoor wilderness skills and leadership development program. Teens can attend, but it is very important that they want to be there and participate willingly, or they could jeopardize the safety of the rest of the group. NOLS is intended for the type of person who reads their catalog and <em>begs</em> their parents to send them to NOLS!</p>
<p>Here is a thread from a berkeley parent support board where I read that quote</p>
<p><a href=“http://parents.berkeley.edu/recommend/summer/nols.html[/url]”>http://parents.berkeley.edu/recommend/summer/nols.html</a></p>
<p>My daughter had a wonderful time on an Adventures Cross Country trip this past July. [Teen</a> Service | Teen Travel | Teen Tours | Adventure Camp](<a href=“http://adventurescrosscountry.com/]Teen”>http://adventurescrosscountry.com/)</p>
<p>It was about 50% community service and 50% vacation. As parents, we were pleased with the level of supervision she received. But, I admit, we weren’t overly concerned about that criterion going into it. YMMV. </p>
<p>Fair warning: It comes out to be more expensive than the “sticker price.” For example, her trip ([ARCC</a> :: Hawaii :: Trip Overview](<a href=“http://adventurescrosscountry.com/trips/tripdetail.cfm?TripID=51]ARCC”>http://adventurescrosscountry.com/trips/tripdetail.cfm?TripID=51)) says ~$3600. But there was $1300 for airfare on top of that and another $1000 for personal gear. If we had known that earlier, we would have shopped around better.</p>
<p>Well, eventually he can canoe all summer at the camps I mentioned (if you can afford it). The oldest kids (around juniors in high school) go on a 40 day canoe trip an Alaska. You have to work your way up to it and be invited, though. And I don’t know the cost.</p>