Buffalo is not a suitcase school. The students who live nearby may go home occasionally or commute, but there is a tremendous number of students who are from the downstate area. Our HS sends a lot of kids to UB.
I agree New Paltz might be a little, but most of the kids stay on campus.
Yes sorry - I corrected that almost immediately, thinking back about what mattered to this student - lots of students live nearby/commute but enough live on campus indeed + anyway sheâs not interested in Buffalo.
(We cross posted).
CC suggested Marist but D23 did not visit or apply. I do know 2 recent grads that were quite happy there. She preferred to be a little closer to home. She also was accepted to UNH and the cost of attendance was less than our in state COA for UMASS Amherst. She was looking for a smaller student population than UMASS. Not too far from Boston but URI would be closer to Providence and NYC. If visiting UMASS Amherst consider visiting Mount Holyoke College where D23 will attend. Again CC suggested a visit to a womenâs college if applicable. If you told me D23 would attend a womenâs college at the beginning of this process I would say no way.
A couple of comments:
Both of my kids had friends who attended SUNY New Paltz and it did not sound like a suitcase school. I think the suitcase school syndrome is more of a concern with schools in Long Island (ex. Hofstra, Adelphi, LIU) since so many students from the area attend and with CUNY schools since there is very limited housing and most students are from NYC and the nearby area.
We visited Marist and Quinnippiac and liked both although my S went elsewhere. For us at least Marist was more generous with merit aid and had a lower base tuition making it a much more affordable option.
I think you set a price of comfort. Both my kids combined will be $150-60kish. I got lucky.
But donât go out of your zone. Stroking that check twice a year is not easy. Set a price. Make sure your daughter knows. And donât waffle. If it comes in higher, make it gone.
And your daughter is looking at some of the worst paying majors - journalism, criminology.
Iâd add back Hofstra - suitcase or not - strong in journalism. Maybe get to an Ithaca (would be a soc major). URI could definitely bring great merit.
Elon, you mentioned, is a great school but isolated imho - in regards to walkable to things short of the little strip adjacent. Thereâs a town a short drive away and two larger cities each under an hour away with Greensboro much less. I know that was a thing for your daughter.
College of Charleston is urban (smack in the tourist zone) and has a more national audience than other regionals and with merit can beat the budget. It has a crime, law and society minor, an urban studies major with social problems concentration that your student might like. And the Fellows Honors program.
While itâs a regional school, it has so many OOS students, especially from the NE, that in many ways it could work. Itâs also easily accessible via air with flights to Denver, Vegas for easier connections.
I would look at the curriculums of whatâs on your list. You can reduce it. Some schools donât fit the majors your daughter would like. You could replace them but visits take time, especially if you are doing official ones and this will grow old quickly (info session after info session, etc). So you donât want to overburden your daughter.
If you reduce the list then maybe you can see both Quinnipiac and Marist?
Neither will likely be your low cost option.
If your budget is 60K, it might be worth doing the thought experiment of comparing a 60K school that ticks all her boxes (East Coast, big city, medium size school etc.) vs a 30K school that doesnât tick all the boxes, but leaves 30K/yr for other things.
So say she goes to Beloit (strong academics with engaged discussion-based classes, but located in small town Midwest and student body <2,000.) Or say she goes to her state flagship (bigger than she wants, and not her ideal location, but with a respected nationally known name and humanities classes will be smaller than you think.) In either of those cases, she should think of what she could do with the leftover ~30K:
-She could spend each summer subletting a student apartment in Manhattan with a couple of her best buddies, working a cool internship (or even just at Starbucks like my sister did) seeing a Broadway show every week, going to a museum every day, going to clubsâŠand still have thousands left over at the end of the summer.
-Or she could spend each summer in Provence, renting a villa with a couple of her best buddies, eating bon-bons and taking French lessons from a private tutor named Jean-LucâŠand still have thousands left over at the end of summer.
-Or you could pay for grad school⊠and still have thousands left over for a down payment on a house.
If the top budget is $60k, then you need to run the NPCs at the schools. As @MYOS1634 indicated, the more thorough the questioning, the more accurate the estimate. If Lafayette, Lehigh, Fordham, Brandeis, and Franklin and Marshall, are all bringing back NPCs higher than $60k, then I would remove them, as I am doubtful that your D would receive sufficient merit aid from those types of schools to get the price where you need it to be. Also, will that $60k budget go up 4-5%/year? If not, then you might want to drop that budget down by about 20%, so maybe more like $48k/year.
How long will yâall be out east? From which airport(s) are you flying into? That might help people provide suggestions of how to plan an itinerary to hit the schools that your D might be most interested in and that are most likely to hit the necessary price points.
Not sure if itâs been shared on this thread yet, but this site has aggregated data on merit aid, including percentage of students without financial need who get it and what the average amount was for those students: Merit Aid by Institution â College Transitions. When thinking about how your daughter compares to the applicants accepted (whether top 25%, middle 50%, bottom 25%) then that might give you some sense as to how likely she might be to receive suffficient merit aid.
Ok, been working on NPCs. Also, I looked at the merit aid by institution and yeah, thatâs pretty dismal. Iâve been looking at tuition/fee prices and even though Iâve been adding other costs in my head, something about seeing all those COAs on paper like that was overwhelming.
Not sure what to do because, in doing the NPCs, Iâm realizing weâre a bit complicated (apparently?). Divorced, both parents self-employed. Moreover, my husband (dâs stepfather) withdrew almost 300k of retirement to pay off our mortgage last year (long story). This HUGELY skews our total income and AGI for 2022. When I run the NPC with the numbers as stated on my tax form, they are way, way out of reach. When I fill it out as if that extra 300k didnât happen, they look pretty hopeful.
So I think Iâve hit a wall, and maybe need to talk to the aid offices about that 300k? Iâm pretty scared that the decision to pay off the house will massively limit my daughterâs choices.
To answer your question, we fly in/out of Boston and have 9 full days to see schools.
Thanks everyone. I know this is far afield from the initial post, your responses are welcome but Iâm not expecting anything.
Paging @kelsmom who might be able to offer more insight on the financial aid front. I think thereâs something you can do a checkmark by to indicate if there was a 1-time rollover or withdrawal or something from a retirement account, but Iâm not sure.
Others can help with the itinerary and college suggestions, but it might be helpful to figure out whatâs going to happen with the financial piece based on the NPCs.
For the NPCs at most schools that require CSS Profile, you will need to include all the financial info of bio-parents and step parents.
Note also that NPCs may not be accurate if the parents own a business or own real estate beyond a primary home.
Lastly, NPC costs are not updated for 2024-25 costs (so increase those by 4%-5% or so), or upcoming FAFSA changes this Fall.
There are some CSS Profile schools that donât require bio-dadâs financials, sort by that factor here (but verify the info on each schoolâs website): CSS Profile Participating Institutions and Programs
While we wait for kelsmom, just confirming the $300k your H used to pay down the mortgage was a distribution out of a tax advantaged retirement account? The IRS will definitely consider that as income, Iâll leave it to kelsmom to address if some schools might adjust for that.
Your income + your husbandâs income + your ex husbandâs income +300k mean you will not qualify for FA anywhere. Even if you remove the 300k it sounds like the 3 incomes combined may make FA much lower than what youâd expected.
As a result, I would not visit colleges that primarily offer financial aid, not merit aid (ie., Lafayette, F&M etc.) Unless the NPC comes within budget, but Iâm guessing youâd be full pay.
Look for the top 25% threshold: thatâs the minimum to be awarded significant merit aid.
If a discussion-focused college is what sheâs after -and itâs a specific environment that isnât just about a few classes, quite different from a huge state U- try to include Wheaton MA when you visit URI.
You can probably spend a pleasant overnight in the Finger Lakes and Ithaca region+ SUNY Geneseo +Hobart&William Smith + St Lawrence (the latter ones also concerned with Liberal Arts& pre professional prep.)
Connecticut College and Dickinson have good professional preparation in addition to discussion-based classes but not sure theyâd be within budget.
In this case, it was a distribution rather than a rollover. There is no way around it counting in the formula. A special circumstances appeal will be necessary at EACH school to ask them to review the situation. Most likely, the amount will be removed from income and added to assets. That will result in a lower EFC (SAI next year), but it will still affect the bottom line. A very few schools may decide that it can be ignored if you show evidence that all of the money was used to pay off the mortgage ⊠but those schools could consider home value. The bottom line is that the $300,000 will most likely come into play, but a special circumstances request to remove it from income will be needed at each school, and each school may handle it differently. Youâll need to talk to each schoolâs financial aid office to get an idea of how they might handle your case.
Below are some schools you might want to investigate to see if any of them seem like they might be a good fit for your D. I focused on schools in the northeast, as your family will be headed there soon. I strongly suspect that all of these will not only come in within budget, but significantly so, after merit aid. Although my descriptions get briefer, it had more to do with my own time/energy constraints than the particulars of the universities themselves. All of these schools offer majors in criminology (as per College Navigator), rather than criminal justice, so the more academic version of the field of study.
Arcadia (PA ): About 1900 undergrads, a 34-minute drive into the heart of Philadelphia (and various public transportation options available that would take more like 1-hr). Sticker price would be at budget but I strongly suspect that your D would get significant merit aid here.
Emmanuel (MA): About 1900 undergrads in the heart of Boston, so not exactly a refuge-like place. But looking at Google Maps, itâs a green (park-like) section on the map and is in close proximity to lots of other green spaces (see map). Itâs a member of the Colleges of the Fenway which is a consortium with Wentworth, Simmons, and a couple other nearby colleges where they can cross-register for classes, participate in extracurriculars together, etc, so that also expands the options to make the school feel larger.
Saint Anselm (NH): About 2k undergrads at this school a 1-hr drive from Boston (2-hrs via public transportation). And Manchester itself has a population of 115k, so certainly not the boonies. Iâve read good things about the atmosphere here.
Saint Josephâs (PA ): This Jesuit school in Philadelphia is again, not going to qualify as a refuge, but it does have an arboretum (which is not showing up as green on Google Maps, but I canât imagine an arboretum not being green. Itâs also near lots of other green spaces (see map below). There are about 5100 undergrads here.
Siena (NY): About 3500 undergrads at this school just outside of Albany (12m drive, 29m via public transport).
Stonehill (MA): About 2500 undergrads. About a 41m drive to Boston or 1h12m via public transport.
U. of Hartford (CT): About 4k undergrads.
U. of New Hampshire: As you were going back-and-forth between this and URI, in light of the recent financials discussion, adding this school of about 12k undergrads back on might be a good idea.
U. of Southern Maine: About 5600 undergrads
The map below shows several of the colleges I just mentioned in relation to Boston, including some of the other schools from your list like Clark and URI. I drew a red arrow to show Amherst (of U. Mass Amherst), but Google Maps wouldnât let me add another stop.
Stonehill and Wheaton are 17m from each other:
These are some of the Pennsylvania schools that were on your list (plus the additions of St. Josephâs and Arcadia). You can see Albany and Providence to try and get a sense of scale with the other schools.
And realizing I forgot Drew, here is a closer up map.
As your family figures out which colleges might suit your D best (academically, socially, geographically, and financially), perhaps these maps might help you as you plan your trip to the northeast. Depending on what schools make your list, you might want to investigate what the cost would be to switch either your arrival or departure city from Boston to Philadelphia, as it would then give you more time to visit colleges without needing to make a loop back up to Boston.
By no means are most SUNYâs suitcase schools. It stands to reason though that schools like Purchase and Stony Brook, in a very suburban areas, will have higher populations of commuters.
Binghamton and New Paltz have few commuters, as examples.
My D23 visited and was accepted to both Marist and Quinnipiac (chose another school). Both campuses are very nice, although she liked Quinnipiac with its pond in the center better. (I preferred Maristâs Hudson River view.) She received $27.5k in merit from Quinnipiac and $20k from Marist, but their final costs were each slightly above $40k. I also felt Marist is more academically challenging while Quinnipiac is a lot less selective.
FYI, D received an application waiver for both schools (as well as Fordham) and Quinnipiac doesnât require a supplemental essay so if you have the space on the common app, there would be no extra work for your student to apply. Marist just had a 250 word Why Marist which is pretty easy for your student to write if they visit the school.
I also know a bit about New Paltz. Grew up in the Hudson Valley and have a lot of family still there. The campus itself is the same as most SUNY schools, a lot of concrete and in my view, not very pretty. But the town of New Paltz and the surrounding area, on both sides of the Hudson, is very nice and a great place to spend outdoors, shop and dine. There are a lot of commuters from the area but is also a popular destination for Long Island high school students.
I honestly canât thank you all enough, it just feels extraordinarily kind the level of engagement youâre offering. @AustenNut thank you especially for writing up all of those options and creating that map, I will definitely follow up with those ideas.
Weâll definitely add Marist and Drew, not sure how else to change things Iâll go through all the details youâve all shared again and make changes. I have an appointment with Brandeis financial aid on Wednesday so Iâll see what they say just as a test case.
Iâm new here so donât know if thereâs any etiquette to express gratitude that Iâm missing, but thank you all very much.
Thank you for this expertise and for taking the time.
You should be able to see Marist and SUNY New Paltz in a day â probably only a half hour from one to the other.
We did both in one day; info session and campus tours at both.
