What programs have direct admissions for CS majors that are harder than the overall college admissions statistics? Obvious one is University of Washington especially for OOS. It also seems like some of those programs are harder for computer engineering but may have a less competitive computer science major option like Berkeley. Any other programs to be wary of the overall school stats?
I’m pretty certain all the California publics have this issue with CS, SE, etc…
To contextualize the reference to Washington:
ACT all enrolled freshmen: 26-32 (Common Data Set, 2016-2017.)
ACT freshmen enrolled in College of Engineering (direct admits and pre-engineering): 27-33 (ASEE Online Profile, 2016.)
For Computer Engineering, see:
https://www.engr.washington.edu/admission/directtocollege/faq
“Direct to College is a new admission process that assures incoming freshman students who are admitted into the College of Engineering that they can pursue an engineering degree at the UW. The changes take effect for the incoming freshman class of 2018.”
“At the Paul G. Allen School of Computer Science & Engineering the Direct to College admission option will be available to students pursuing bachelors’ degrees in computer engineering, which are awarded through the College of Engineering. The Allen School’s computer science degree, which is awarded through the College of Arts & Sciences, will not be a part of the new Direct to College program. Instead, the Allen School will continue to offer its existing Direct Admission program, through which roughly 20% of new computer science majors are enrolled as freshmen each year.”
For CS Direct Admission:
“Most students offered DA have a high school GPA of 3.85-4 (unweighted), and strong test scores (usually 700+ on each section of the SAT; 30+ on the ACT). Remember that these numbers are only one factor in our selection process. Regarding test scores specifically, it’s helpful to know that other factors are typically more important (grades, curriculum, essays, and activities). Also note that hundreds of students with these high grades and test scores are not offered DA; no grade or test score guarantees admission.”
“If you were not offered Direct Admission, it is not an indication of your ability to excel in this discipline. Instead, it is an indication of the small number of students to whom we offer Direct Admission. For 2017, fewer than 3% of UW freshman applicants who listed Computer Science or Computer Engineering as their first-choice major were offered Direct Admission; these students had an average unweighted GPA of 3.97; average test scores of ACT 34, SAT Math 764, and SAT Verbal 758; took a rigorous high school curriculum; provided evidence of meaningful extracurricular activities; submitted strong personal statements; and were mostly Washington residents.”
“Students who are not directly admitted to one of our majors as freshmen can complete the prerequisites and apply through our regular admission program. This takes most students approximately one year to complete and includes three academic quarters of calculus, our introductory programming courses, English composition, and an approved science course. Our regular admission acceptance rate in the most recent year was 40%. Regular admission candidates are evaluated based on a combination of college grades and personal statements; Washington state residency may also be a factor in admissions as we strive to fulfill our mission as the state’s flagship public university.” (University of Washington, Paul G. Allen School of Computer Science & Engineering Website.)
Earlier this year, the Seattle Times reported:
"This year, direct admission will be offered to 150 students. All but five of them are Washington residents.
"Although computer science and engineering is a tough program to get into, the picture is getting better. In 2016, 43 percent of bachelor’s applicants were admitted to the program. In previous years, the admission rate was lower.
“[The CSE Department] is now enrolling about 370 new undergraduate students each year, double the number it was able to accommodate in 2012… This year, it is asking for $6 million from the Legislature to increase the number of students it graduates by 120 degrees per year. Most of that increase would be in bachelors degrees, Lazowska said.”
Yes, that’s the scary thing about U of WA. What about UIUC, U of Maryland College Park, U of Michigan, U of Texas Austin, Case Western or Purdue?
Is CS easier than the overall at places like Johns Hopkins that could be flooded with pre-meds?
Considering the incoming body of Johns Hopkins 25/75th percentile is : 740-800 (math), I don’t necessarily think the student body is less capable.
Also, from my experience, no. CS is not easier in universities such as Johns Hopkins. Personally, I think otherwise but that’s all up to debate (and let’s not do that here).
You have to understand, US college/universities to my knowledge does not prohibit students to take certain courses simply because it is not their majors.
For instance, a CS major in U of WA is probably going to be taking a humanity course such as Philosophy 101 (just for the sake of the example) regardless of the fact that his major is CS, not Philosophy.
Likewise, a Philosophy major in U of WA is probably going to be taking a science course such as Computer Science 101 regardless of the fact that his major is Philosophy, not CS.
This same logic can then be applied to Johns Hopkins.
Well so what? Thing is, many of these non-CS majors (and there are pre-meds by the way with CS degrees) are probably going to be taking the introductory CS college in either schools.
Generally, once you leave the introductory level course, students outside their majors does not take the more specialized courses.
Eg.: A philosophy major in Johns Hopkins will most likely after the introductory course in CS not take anymore. Likewise, a philosophy major in U of WA will most likely after the introductory course in CS not take anymore.
Hence, don’t worry about the competition because those students outside the major will most likely be taking their own courses to fulfill graduation.
Also, there’s nothing wrong with pre-meds taking CS. I would actually highly recommend it. Pre-med is just a set of introductory courses students have to fulfill to be eligible to many med schools in the US.
I do believe UIUC, Carnegie Mellon, UCB also have a system similar to this. I hear it’s hard to switch “in” relatively. For the rest, I don’t really believe so (I might be wrong so don’t take it for a fact). If you are worried about such while going to a phenomenal CS program, take a look into UW-Madison. Top 15 CS school and no separate admissions for anything (including engineering). I do believe UCB, UMich, UT, UIUC, CMU, UWA have separate admissions for different majors but not UW-Madison and it’s excellent across the various disciplines (and not as competitive as schools such as Johns Hopkins for undergrad).
Case Western is open-door when it comes to majors; it does not admit by major (with a couple exceptions like music), and therefore there is no separate admission hurdle for CS. If you are accepted into Case Western, you are free to choose pretty much any major you want.
Here’s a resource for information on the subject:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19262574/#Comment_19262574
@UWfromCA that’s an awesome resource! Thank you.
We want to be realistic about acceptance chances and not get caught offguard thinking a school is a good fit or a safety option when it’s really a reach. Balanced list is the goal.
Wisconsin has no issue with CS being enrolled to capacity, since a student just needs a C grade in one CS course to enter the CS major: https://www.cs.wisc.edu/academics/undergraduate-programs/how-prepare-cs-major
However, engineering majors are a different story. To enter or stay in an engineering major (even after direct admission), a student must meet progression requirements that include GPA minimums which can be up to 3.5 technical and 3.0 overall, depending on the major (computer engineering needs 3.2 technical and 2.5 overall): https://www.engr.wisc.edu/academics/student-services/academic-advising/first-year-undergraduate-students/progression-requirements/
Not all. It looks like CS is not a restricted or selective major at the following:
UCM
CSUB
CSUCI
CSUC
CSUDH
CSUEB
HSU
CSULA
CSUN
CSUSac
CSUSB
SFSU
CSUSM
SSU
CSUStan
UCB has two ways to study CS:
EECS in the College of Engineering: one of the most competitive majors for frosh admission, but is direct admission to the major (need just to stay in good academic standing with C grades and 2.0 GPA or higher).
CS in the College of Letters and Science (L&S CS): similar frosh admission competitiveness as other L&S applicants since all L&S applicants are applying for L&S undeclared. Once enrolled, student must earn a 3.3 college GPA in the three prerequisite CS courses in order to enter the L&S CS major.
More information here:
https://eecs.berkeley.edu/academics/undergraduate
@1998parent15 for Umich, when you apply to LSA, you only compete with other LSA applicants. When you apply to CoE, you only compete with other CoE applicants. Freshmen enter undeclared, and can only declare a certain major by satisfactorily completing certain requirements as an actual Umich student.
EECS at Umich has recently removed enrollment caps for the CS major, with their reason being that such caps can be a barrier to female and minority students. The department chair here believes that all Umich students who wish to consider the CS major should be given a chance to try - if a student is capable of succeeding, then great, the department will support them through the program; if not, then that is too bad, and there is not much that the department can do about it. Once enrollment sizes in the fundamental CS courses began to skyrocket, the department began using a two-attempt policy so that those who should realize that they do not have the ability to succeed in CS are not taking away seats from those who have yet to be given a chance. That is, for three fundamental CS courses, each student is limited to a maximum of two attempts at the course, with withdrawal from the course counting as an attempt. Statistically, if a student fails to succeed in a second attempt for any course, a third attempt and beyond rarely makes a difference.
In short, every student who gets admitted to Umich will be allowed to try the CS major if they wish. Your ability to do a CS major at Umich is based solely on your performance as an actual Umich student, without regard to how you did in high school. Putting down CS as a prospective major on your Umich application does not make it more difficult for you to be admitted than others.
Wouldn’t the real reason be that they figured out how to increase instructional capacity (possibly with the maximum-of-two-attempts policy to reduce the instructional load in the lower level courses)?
The LSA CS program guide at http://cs.lsa.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/16_17_cs_lsa.pdf still mentions a 2.5 GPA requirement to enter the major, though.
@ucbalumnus that was just what I heard from faculty. As far as I can tell, the amount that the max two attempts policy helps is still masked (by far) by the skyrocketing demand. Since recent semesters, every CS course (both lower and upper level) has had extensive wait lists, and the department has come close to being forced to telling students that they cannot get into the lower level fundamental courses (which is very unusual at Umich). Their rate of hiring new faculty is still too low given the demand.
The GPA requirement for declaring and/or staying in the major is quite a low expectation, in my opinion. Most employers do have a 3.0 minimum GPA requirement for hiring.
If skyrocketing demand is outpacing instructional capacity, then it would not be surprising if they implemented more measures to regulate the class demand, in addition to the maximum-of-two-attempts policy (such as raising the minimum GPA threshold to enter the major, which currently looks like 2.0 for CoE CSE and 2.5 for LSA CS).
CMU’s School of Computer Science is far harder to get into than other schools at CMU. And at CMU, you apply to the specific school.
I went to a Johns Hopkins info session, and they mentioned that JHU does not have any cap on any major (except BME, which only admit 50 students.) You get admitted to the university, and you can declare any major by the second year.