<p>How do suspensions affect admissions? All of the admissions deans quoted in the article about suspensions (see CC homepage) encourage students to come clean, however, I'm wondering if students who tell all about their pasts have been accepted at the most selective and/or their first choice schools. I wonder if admissions officers don't use a confession of suspension as a way of automatically eliminating a candidate. Have students who haven't reported their past infractions had their lack of candor catch up with them after they were admitted, and if so, what were the consequences? How many students who have had suspensions expunged from their records then later report them, with an eye to full disclosure? Do private schools make more effort than public schools to avoid suspensions, and or expunge them from students' records, so their students have the best chance possible for admission? How many schools have zero tolerance policies for alcohol and/or drug use, that result in automatic suspensions? Thanks in advance for everyone's candor.</p>
<p>I believe that on the form the GCs fill out, they have to answer question about suspensions and expulsions. Thus, if a student lies about being suspended, it's likely the college will recognize the discrepancy and won't admit them.</p>
<p>Check the archives, too, because the topic and examples have come up before.</p>
<p>Regardless of what has been said, IT WILL <em>DESTROY</em> YOUR CHANCES AT AN UPPER TIER COLLEGE. DO NOT TELL THEM UNLESS YOU <em>ABSOLUTELY</em> HAVE TO(i.e. your counselor will report you). IN MOST STATES IT IS ILLEGAL FOR A COUNSELOR TO REPORT A DISCIPLINARY ACTION WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OF THE STUDENT AND PARENTS,.ESPECIALLY IF IT IS A PUBLIC SCHOOL. PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE BOUND BY NO SUCH LAW, BUT THEY TEND NOT TO REPORT SUSPENSIONS BECAUSE IT WOULD BE BAD FOR BUSINESS). </p>
<p>I accidently brought a knife to school (it was in my pocket from the night before) but once again, IT IS <em>NONE</em> OF A COLLEGE'S BUSINESS. Drugs/alcohol are harsh offenses and will unequivocably hurt you. Only thing worse than drugs are weapons and academic honor code violations.</p>
<p>Trust me, I speak in your best interests, from someone who has been there. I was suspended, but I was able to tie my counselor's hands behind his back with state law, so he couldn't report me. I got into my top choice college (ivy league).</p>
<p>PS: And as far as my counselor reporting me later, I could sue his ass for every penny he is worth should he report anything from JUVENILE (READ: SEALED) records, and then, I will have so much money from him and the school system that I will never need to attend college. Having the law on your side in a litigious society is great.</p>
<p>I have designated myself the forum "expert" on the suspension issue. I have a lot of expertise on this and have talked to a number of admissions folks, high school counselors and parents about this issue.
Do a search on suspensions and my screen name, or feel free to send me a Private Message.
The short answer is- you DO have to disclose the suspension. Don't take a chance on not disclosing it because it could come out in another way (i.e. a teacher writes "Johnny has been a model student the last two years and clearly learned from XXXX in freshman year"). The REASON for the suspension/expulsion is key. The big no-nos are drugs, academic dishonesty and violence (not a scuffle, but bringing a weapon to school or something like that). An alcohol violation is NOT a deal-breaker, despite what others might say. The important thing is to write a concise explanation of what happened and what you learned from the incident.<br>
My son was suspended AND expelled from a prep school. He was admitted to some highly selective colleges and will be attending Penn next year. He is an athletic recruit, but the discipline issues were considered aside from that. Believe it or not, the whole thing actually helped him a little, because he really had to climb back out of a hole and his recs were full of praise about the whole thing.</p>
<p>I HAD A 3.7 AT A UNIVERSITY IN CHICAGO. I tried to apply for transfer</p>
<p>admission at a ivy league university. The dean at my present college</p>
<p>contacted my former high school adviser even if I graduated ten years ago.</p>
<p>TO HELP HER FILL OUT A RECOMMEDATION BECAUSE SHE DID NOT DID </p>
<p>KNOW ME VERY WELL. I HAD A TROUBLE AT MY HIGH SCHOOL AND WAS ACCUSED OF BAD </p>
<p>BEHAVIOR. Not only did the ivy school reject me but my present university</p>
<p>took me off the register. Since then I have been rejected by about seven</p>
<p>schools. I picked a few schools that welcome returning adults and schools</p>
<p>that do not REQUIRE A HIGH SCHOOL TRANSCRIPT. MY GRADES IN HIGH </p>
<p>SCHOOL WERE NOT THAT GOOD BUT COLLEGE GRADES WERE EXCELLANT</p>
<p>DO COLLEGES CONTACT HIGH SCHOOL ADVISERS IF THERE IS A BIG </p>
<p>DIFFERENCE IN GPA. DOES THE COLLEGE WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE </p>
<p>PROBLEM WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL?</p>
<p>I have been told it is best to come clean, have the student write and think about their indiscretion and in some cases this may help them in the long run. This was advice given by a very well respected administrator to our students. I don't think it would be a good thing to try and cover up information that the schools were seeking.</p>
<p>I do not think that your high school transgressions will be discovered by a third party, but that does not mean that you shouldn't disclose everything up front. To do so is such a better policy on just about every level.</p>
<p>[url=<a href="http://college.mychances.net/view/?id=20&app=college%5DNash%5B/url">http://college.mychances.net/view/?id=20&app=college]Nash[/url</a>]</p>
<p>find out if GC will tell college about it. If he/she won't the college simply has no means of finding out and it would be idiotically pointing them in the right direction if you fess up when there is no chance of them finding out. </p>
<p>yes, it may be immoral but not many are moral when it comes to college admissions.</p>
<p>And that should make a difference because...?</p>
<p>People, have some moral autonomy!</p>
<p>all hail the preacher here.</p>
<p>I'm sorry but I seriously doubt all of us are as morally strict as you, especially when it comes to issues that affect the outcome of our lives.</p>
<p>Lots and lots of reaction formation goes on around here. Those who scream the loudest for "moral character" are likely the most depraved or biggest liars themselves.</p>
<p>Think what you wish. </p>
<p>There are a few of this generation with morals left..
(Sorry for the condescending tone, but after about 3/4 of my IB class tried to cheat on a History final exam this week, my outlook on the rest of us is pretty bleak)</p>
<p>Although I do find it interesting that you have to attack the few people sticking up for morals. Unprovoked, I might add.</p>
<p>since I doubt most of those who do stick up for it are actually moral themselves.</p>
<p>face facts: judging from any school you look at, 75% of the students cheat. if they're smart they get away with it. if not, well sucks for them. but everyone will keep on doing it. </p>
<p>the simple fact is that sometimes working your hardest will not always get you into a dream school, and you need to fall into the track every1 else seems to take.</p>
<p>or you may just be like me and decide that there is no rhyme or reason to staying up all hours of the night EVERY SINGLE night and make the same grade as a person who took a shortcut and 'cheated', and simply follow their example. in fact, its much smarter than taking the hard way.</p>
<p>screw morals, no one else has them, why should we?</p>
<p>Exactly. What it comes down to at the end of the day is whether you took that opportunity and ran with it, or let it pass you by like an invalid.</p>
<p>I know I took every opportunity presented to me, and I couldn't be happier with the person I see in the mirror - a person who may not be perfectly moral, but a person who is going places (and got into their top choice college!) nonetheless.</p>
<p>Screw morality. It won't get you anywhere.</p>
<p>Ruthlessness and cunning will get you everywhere.</p>
<p>Who do you want to be? The slightly sketchy but extremely successful person, or the dyed-in-the-wool goody twoshoe who is stuck in a dead-end job because he doesn't have the balls to CLAW his way to the top?</p>
<p>The thing is, I don't see the chance to cheat as an "opportunity" to do well on an assignment. Cheating is a cop out -- it's worse than lying in that you don't even face the person you're lying to. You just hand in the quiz/test with false satisfaction, receiving a grade you didn't earn.</p>
<p>Maybe its just personalities, but I can't understand how people don't feel guilt after cheating -- I guess it's just because of the habituation. You cheat enough and it becomes normal, you grab your cues from the culture around you and cheating becomes a way of life. Not only does this idea occur in your schoolwork, but you will notice it pervading into everything you do.</p>
<p>If you judge the person in the mirror by what college they got into, you'll be sorely dissapointed when you run into any kind of challenge in life. </p>
<p>The problem with today's society is they don't realize that everything doesn't need to be attached with a material item. Morality may not lead to a better job, more money, or a flashier car. But when I get older, I know that I'll be more than content to look back on my life and be proud of my accomplishments. I'll be proud of my work, my sweat, my tears that went into my education.</p>
<p>I'm not judging a person by the college they were admitted to. I'm merely pointing out that my tactics worked for me. I was likely admitted to an ivy league school over some hapless, hopeless "moral" peon.</p>
<p>As far as the future goes. If someone "moral" is competing with me for a job, God help them - because I won't, and neither will anyone else. In fact, I will go to every effort to screw them over, because I hate people on high horses. I will do anything to get ahead, and this mindset has led me to nothing but success so far.</p>
<p>I too will be proud of what I accomplished, but I will be particularly proud of the fact that I never gave an inch. If someone does defeat me in scaling the ladder called life, more power to them - evidently, they were better at playing the game than I was, and they deserve all the power that entails. But I guarantee they won't have gotten their based on their naivete or with the character flaw known as "morality".</p>
<p>Why does a person having high morals mean they are on 'high horses'? Just because someone chooses to live their life following what they believe is correct, why do you assume that they think they are better than everyone else? Honestly, it sounds like you have some resentment towards moral people, for whatever reason.</p>
<p>Naivete has nothing to do with morality, although nowadays you won't find many moral, non-naive people out there due to this culture that promotes backstabbing and cheating. I am definitely not naive - I know the sad fact that our generation is going down the drain, and am quite interested to see how it all will turn out.</p>
<p>The difference between you and I is that you focus on the endproduct, while I enjoy the journey (the endproduct is just a bonus). Whether I get into a good college or not is not the issue for me (although of course it wouldn't suck). If my journey to college is riddled with lies, there's no way I could enjoy college. My conscious wouldn't let me forget that I didn't deserve to be there. Life is not a race to the top and the sooner you figure that out the better. </p>
<p>Because whenever (if you ever do, rather than spending your life for naught) you get to the top you'll find that its quite lonely up there and I suspect you'll wish you had savored your time as a youth instead of always taking the easy way out.</p>
<p>Not to mention, the cheating will always catch up to you. Whether it be in undergrad, grad, or somehow in the workforce it will find a way to come back and haunt you.</p>
<p><<the slightly="" sketchy="" but="" extremely="" successful="" person,="" or="" the="" dyed-in-the-wool="" goody="" twoshoe="" who="" is="" stuck="" in="" a="" dead-end="" job="" because="" he="" doesn't="" have="" balls="" to="" claw="" his="" way="" top?="">></the></p>
<p>I don't think morality and success are mutually exclusive. Shareholders and customers prefer trustworthy firms. Head hunters prefer reputable candidates. People are fired when they are caught violating their employer's trust. CEOs are let go when they are thought questionable. Companies and manufacturers lose business when they are suspected of being unethical in their practices and/or hoodwinking customers. In short, moral behavior is rewarded and immoral behavior punished, even in business. </p>
<p>At universities, professors reward students for original work; and plagiarism is harshly punished at most top universities. Many even have these strange things called "honor codes", which are predicated upon the assumption of some degree of moral virtue. Or at least, an attempt at it. Even if one never gets caught, the very suspicion thereof can tar a student's reputation. (Faculty talk to one another; universities are v. conducive to gossip.) </p>
<p>I do find it sad that some lack confidence in their own abilities to the point where they feel it is only through underhanded tactics that they will achieve anything. It is also indicative of a lack of experience.</p>
<p>WindSlicer, while your efforts are commendable, it is impossible to keep perfectly and beat out all the cheaters. What is cheating? It's using any means to gain an UNFAIR advantage. If everyone does it, there is nothing unfair about it anymore. Its like using a calculator on a math test. </p>
<p>Back to the point of the thread. No, DO NOT report your suspension unless you are ABSOLUTELY SURE it will help you application (you bounced back etc.) or if your GC will report you.</p>
<p>Seriously, people, what happened to taking pride in our work?</p>
<p>I was homeschooled... PLENTY of temptation to cheat, but I didn't. At the end of the day, I wanted to say "hey, I've earned this." There is much pride and satisfaction from knowing you have accomplished something honestly. It's a shame many of you won't know this feeling.</p>
<p>Also... If you keep pretending to be someone you're not, you won't know who you really are anymore.</p>