<p>There are plenty of smart kids for whom neither Vassar nor Swarthmore would be a happy destination. Are there other schools that interest him? The athletic leg up can be an enticing route to being a square peg in a round hole. These two are too much alike to be much of a choice at all. Of course both are terrific academic institutions.
Who does your son enjoy hanging out with?</p>
<p>Momrath and danas - I absolutely agree with what you are saying. But what if his "gut" isn't really telling him anything, or at least not telling him it too strongly? Being on campus and hanging out with the "guys," he feels sure he could be happy at either school. </p>
<p>He is definitely not a huge party guy - he'd pretty low key. He hangs out with a combination of teammates and classmates (some "jocks" and some "nots"). He's the kind of kid who genuinely does like all sort of people - athletes, musicians, artists. His personal interests are pretty wide. One favorite is weight training; another is reading. I think he'll find plenty of people at either school he'd be happy to spend the next four years with.</p>
<p>Basically, out of all of the schools we visited (and it's been quite a few since the fall of his junior year), there haven't been any that have bowled him over. There hasn't been one college that caused him to say, "This is it. I have to go here." At this point, he's narrowed it down to a pretty short list, with Swarthmore and Vassar being at the top. Honestly, I think that the "you'll know it when you feel it" thing is what is causing him so much conflict. He feels it, but not in any overwhelming way. Do you think that some kids just sort of figure it out once they're there?</p>
<p>I would just wait to see if he gets in at both schools. If he does, then do over night visits at both again.</p>
<p>China:</p>
<p>It's a psychological tight rope. A smart kid really can't allow him or herself to go ga-ga over one particular college because they know they might not get accepted. Picturing himself happy at several different colleges is a much healthier (and probably realistic) approach.</p>
<p>Swarthmore was a very clear first choice for my daughter and she applied Early Decision after two campus visits. However, she would have been happy at Vassar or any number of other colleges.</p>
<p>I understand he is really good at his sport and loves it. However I would be careful about having the sport drive the college search.</p>
<p>Since he is looking at Div 3 schools, remind him that if he wants to try something new he can. My daughter checked out the two sports she had done at every college. To our surprise, in September she decided to go out for a club sport that she had never played before. I think she is enjoying pushing herself to learn a new skill set.</p>
<p>Another boy I know was being recruited for Div 1 for running. He liked a LAC, so went there. Freshman year he played soccer. Div 3 gives you the flexibility to do what interests you, not what you are locked in on. This year he is back to running - because he wants to, not because he feels he owes the college anything.</p>
<p>Tell your son to go to the college where he likes the people and finds the academics interesting. If he does his sport, fine. If he doesn't play or gets injured he will still be happy there. He has more to offer than his athletic ability.</p>
<p>I would agree that the Centennial conference is far stronger than the Liberty group. I also believe, you need to check this, that the time spent traveling to/from is far less at Swarthmore than at Vassar. Time on the bus is never as much fine as time playing or being back at school.</p>
<p>I think you have indicated that you know that at either school sports will be a far distant second or third or lower priority to academics and other activities for the vast majority of the students. Other posters have mentioned other schools with higher profile athletic programs at the D3 level and there are others in both conferences these schools are in. Haverford comes to mind as an obvious other choice to consider.</p>
<p>Both are great schools and he should consider other differences. Vassar is wealthy but Swarthmore is off the charts in terms of its endowment per student. Swarthmore is also roughly 50% the size of Vassar so the social and academic environment is different.</p>
<p>On location you will find a post in the Swarthmore forum about what is around the school. Certainly there is more to do there than around Vassar.</p>
<p>The academic environment at Swarthmore appears, to a parent that is, to be admirably more intense though do not underestimate the intensity at Vassar, within the larger student body. Drop the "bottom" 50% of the Vassar students and you may have students very similar to those at Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Great choices. I would certainly consider EDII at Swarthmore if he wants the intense academics that Swarthmore (like Reed or Chicago) provides. I would say do not go to Swarthomore to play a sport or because a sport can get you in but it is not where you really want to be.</p>
<p>My D is very happy at Vassar but clearly would have gone to Swarthmore if she had got in....should have done EDII!</p>
<p>Both schools rate highly among employers despite the dry cleaner issue. I think Vassar may be ahead there because of the 7 sister bit but it has indeed been coed since 1969.</p>
<p>I'll throw out another general comment on Centennial Conference vs. NESCAC athletics. While NESCAC is generally regarded as having a greater focus on athletics, this certainly isn't evident when it comes to the highest-profile college sport, football. </p>
<p>NESCAC has the shortest season in college football: eight games. The Centennial Conference regular season is ten games.</p>
<p>Furthermore, NESCAC flatly bans postseason play in football (even though NESCAC teams would likely be competitive at the national level). They play eight games, and that's all. This means that NESCAC schools automatically forfeit any chance for football points in the NACDA Director's Cup, which are the most widely recognized rankings for college athletic programs.</p>
<p>The Centennial Conference, on the other hand, always sends its top teams to the NCAA Division III playoffs -- where they are committed to playing at least one, and potentially as many as five, postseason games. And CC teams that don't make the NCAA playoffs often play in postseason ECAC bowl games. </p>
<p>So it's not unusual for CC football teams to play more than 10 games. Last year, for example, Muhlenberg made the NCAA playoffs and wound up playing a total of 12 games -- 50% more than a NESCAC season. If they had kept winning in the NCAA playoffs, they could have played as many as 15 games -- nearly twice the NESCAC limit. </p>
<p>I'm just not convinced that it makes sense for small colleges to have such long football seasons. Last year Ohio State played only 13 games, including the BCS championship game for the national title.</p>
<p>This general comment does not apply to Swarthmore or Haverford, since they've dropped their football programs. Perhaps they would have been more inclined to keep them, if CC had tougher football policies.</p>
<p>Years ago Centennial's predecessor conference, can't remember the name right now, did not allow post season play in football. I would agree that seems like a very long season.</p>
<p>I might also point out that F&M has been in the Women's Div III Lacrosse finals two years running and where undefeated champions the first year. F&M Men's basketball has also done well. Haverford and Swarthmore tennis is often very strong as are their track/cc teams.</p>
<p>Swarthmore's women's soccer team just won the ECACs/South for the second year in a row, and men's soccer is scheduled to play Amherst in round three (Sweet 16) of the NCAA tournament.<br>
Meanwhile, Johns Hopkins' women's soccer team is headed for the Sweet 16 also, and Ursinus Field Hockey is headed for the Final Four. Hopkins and Dickinson's women's cross country teams will run in the NCAA championship as well, and Centennial will send two teams and three individuals to the men's Cross Country championships.
Echoing ctParent, yes, Centennial is a real women's lax powerhouse too, with not just F&M but at least three other teams very high up in the national rankings for most of last spring, and three of them were there the season before (07), too.</p>
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This general comment does not apply to Swarthmore or Haverford, since they've dropped their football programs. Perhaps they would have been more inclined to keep them, if CC football policies had been stricter.
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<p>I am quite confident in saying that the likelihood of playing multiple postseason games had absolutely nothing to do with Swarthmore's decision to drop football eight years ago!</p>
<p>The decision was recruiting slot based. They felt that to have a competitive football team required more than ten percent of all male freshmen to be football players. That number was so high that it was incompatible with the need for recruiting slots for other sports and for the College's diversity goals.</p>
<p>The decision appears to be paying some dividends through stronger recruiting in the other sports. The men's soccer team just beat Johns Hopkins for Swarthmore's first men's conference championship since football in 1984. </p>
<p>After two wins in the NCAA tournament hosted at Swarthmore this weekend, the team moves on to the Sweet 16 round. </p>
<p>This program has been on the rise for several years and seems to be a team that reflects Swarthmore's diversity. Interestingly enough, the head coach has a team rule: a player cannot remain on the team if they join one of the two fraternities on campus.</p>