Why does this student need more safeties than anyone else. No one keeps telling kids to keep adding safeties in the chance me threads. She has one, she likes it, she can afford it. End of story.
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My comment wasn’t about adding “safeties”.
Agree with what you said about legacy – and, I am not opposed to using legacy in admissions 
Legacies are as strong as other students, usually. Is this student stronger than other applicants? (that’s rhetorical).
I also believe that you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take, but I also believe in reality.
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You just need to be aware of reality and willing to live with the consequences.
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IMO, OP’s daughter is taking a very measured and thoughtful approach. After al, it is about the total 4 year college experience. She obviously had other colleges in mind as her top choices, and the athletic recruit route did not pan out. We don’t know (at least I missed any academic stats that were shared) how long of a shot she is for her academic reaches. It’s one thing to be academically competitive and have a shot as good as anyone else vs being a no chancer, even if the admit rate is sub 10%. She has a great backup in McGill, so taking a shot at a Stanford (and similar) is not unreasonable. She can still apply to the recruit school(s) RD, and maybe with some support from the coach under some circumstances.
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whilst her decision will be her own, she’s cogniscent of the odds.
Her updated list includes 2 Canadian Universities at which she should be safely admitted with 44/45 expected IB scores ranking substantially above the historical line for her intended major.
She also understands that the odds of getting admitted to Stanford are 3%, and that a substantial number of students/friends have significantly higher odds because they have higher scores or are pretty much guaranteed a spot due to outside outsize donations.
Her school list is being refined, and if she pursues the non-recruit route, will include US schools with 3-20% admit rates, most of which she has visited, but certainly not all.
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If she is going the Stanford direction, she should apply REA. It will give you better visibility on the strength of her app. If she is rejected, maybe she has time to go back to the recruit schools either RD or ED2.
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I think test scores (if not changed) may be an issue, but who knows how AOs think. @NiVo if going this route she may want to consider testing one more time.
Also important - taking your shot is not the same as holding out hope. Any deferrals should be considered rejections and going ED2 at any school that is near the top of choices would be the best option at that point.
Although for Stanford, an REA deferral actually is an indicator of a strong app (Stanford historically has a very high reject rate and low deferral REA vs say Harvard, which has a very high deferral rate). If her scores are sub 1500/33, she probably should go TO. Don’t know if that is a red flag for an international.
OP, how many of her academic schools have EA options? If Stanford REA is too long of a shot, maybe EA at several others is a smarter strategy.
she will not REA Stanford because several of her stronger classmates are applying REA. Depending on how many get accepted, she will include Stanford on her RD list.
Her intention is to apply TO where her score ranks below the 75% mark, and that would include Stanford amongst several others.
Good EAs could include UVA, Georgetown, Chicago.
It is a great life lesson to accept that stronger classmates have better chances, and that mega donors are guaranteed admission.
They’re not, although they may have higher than average acceptance rates if qualified.
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@Ski Europe, whilst you may know better in general, I am certain to know better with regards the particular Stanford families involved which had 100% admit rates across their many kids. Bear in mind that the probability of having 4 kids admitted to Stanford is circa 1/800,000
That’s irrelevant in her case, so if she pursues that route, her focus should be on the composition of her ED/EA1/EA2/ED2/UC/RD strategy, and writing compelling essays.
The plural of anecdote is not data.
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At Stanford, they are upfront absolutely it not being a hook. They just promise your application will get read twice (as protection against a reader having a bad day.) They are also pretty upfront that you can get a better look by being a major donor. I think that’s what the “legacy is a weak hook” was about - this school.
Editted to add that I too know families who have made huge donations - of the naming level - and have not gotten all their kids in. Better odds, for sure, but not 100%. I also know families who were not donors and whose kids all attended. Who would have thought?
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If she opts for non-recruit, the question would be whether to modify her list, and to “chance me”
Stats
- International
- 1480 SAT (submit TO where below Top25%)
- 3.97 GPA
- 44/45 IB Expected
- Decent ECs + sports
- no scenic research
Non-Swim list update (school regulated cap of 9 schools + UCs)
- Far Reach: Amherst (Walk-on), Brown (walk-on), Stanford
- Reach: Bowdoin (walk-on), Cornell (walk-on), Tufts, UCLA, Berkeley
- Match: UVA
- Safety: McGill (swimming tbc) / University of Toronto
UVA is likely a reach as well.
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Her best bets are the UC schools, since they are test-blind. I highly doubt she could get into any of the others with a 1480 or going TO. International + TO is near impossible at these schools, ESPECIALLY applying RD.
Maybe Boston University would be a target?
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I think she’s handled her recruiting/application process exactly right. She saw what swimming could get her as far as admissions help, but never lost sight of the schools she wants to attend.
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Will she ED to any of the schools in this list if she is not recruited? UVA definitely a reach. Note that Bowdoin’s acceptance rate is actually lower than Amherst’s.
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Have you confirmed this? I only ask because I know a swimmer with faster times than your swimmer who was not able to walk on. IIRC she needed ~ futures cuts.
I have to agree with UVA most definitely being a reach. It is for any OOS US applicant and probably for most in state.
I also agree that test optional is a real challenge for international students. There was an interesting conversation on a different thread relaying Dartmouth’s provost interview on YCBK. The summary appeared to be that tests are valued but they are “optional” as to allow these schools (ivies+) so give consideration to the type of student they believe will help fulfill their mission/institutional priorities.
The lack of a significant EC spike may pose an additional challenge as this seems to be even more important for international applicants.
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