That was our experience as well. Going in already having high test scores definitely helped.
If someone were to ask me, I’d say anyone targeting these schools should prep in earnest during the summer and take a test August before Junior year.
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So filling out recruitment questionnaires and general ask of GPA and test scores are sort of like step one responses. She needs to be asking if coaches are still recruiting for 2024s and her events. As a junior she should be asking that in her initial emails to coaches. We found coaches to be very up front and honest about if they were still recruiting and if they had already given their supported spots to another recruit.
She needs to reach out to those schools she sent academic info to and ask for phone calls ASAP - if she is on their initial list they will get on the phone with her. Anyone not responsive to your request for a phone call needs to be moved on from at this point. Also, if schools are truly interested and she is in their group for potential pre reads/support they will be asking her for phone calls in their follow up emails.
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@GKmom23 is correct about level of interest the coaches are showing in your D. March of junior year is very late in the process. I did not realize that your D is only in the emailing stage. At this point, my D had been talking for months (usually first a zoom, then follow-up phone calls with the head coach and then frequent texts with the assistants) and we had pre-reads in hand. Most top D3 schools have probably already allotted all their ‘slots’ (in which the coach provides ‘full support’ for admissions) by now. Having said that, things can change: there were several last-minute shuffles in my D’s swimming peer group, kids de-commit for various reasons, etc.
So, best of luck to your daughter in her tapered meet(s) this spring. If she swims lights-out and drops tons of time AND you are ready to act fast, she still may have a shot at gaining coach support for admission to a highly selective school. However, you would have to be prepared to jump on a plane for an OV and be ready to commit ED very quickly.
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Teams/coaches will ask for grades/test scores on recruit questionnaires or in initial email contacts, but that is NOT the same as a preread request. The coach will explicitly have a conversation with your daughter asking for her to submit for a preread. April-June seemed to be the time that coaches started asking for all the required information that the AO wanted, so that it was ready for submission on July 1. I agree with @GKmom23 and @UpNorth2019 that since it is March, time is of the essence for your daughter in this process.
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realistically given the late stage, the real question which all of you have reiterated is which coach is truly interested, confirming he/she wants to give pre-reads, and engaging in update phone/zoom calls to give color on where she would rank on his/her recruit list. The rest is just hope and nice to have, just like a hail marry or a winning lottery ticket
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Keep in mind, the coaches can be truly interested, and recruit a student athlete hoping that they apply, get accepted and would be on the team, though they may not have any official admissions support or a “slot” to offer them. The key here IMO is that both sides understand what is and is not being offered.
I have known kids that were actively recruited by Ivy’s, were on the short list but late in the process fell off of the board for getting a Likely Letter, so they would be on their own for admissions. In one case I know someone that this happened to, they applied on their own without any support (like the majority of kids applying to the school), got accepted and were on the team.
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and your daughter just needs to be direct and ask the coaches that exact question. In our experience coaches were very honest about where a recruit stands at this point in the process. and your daughter will be able to better cultivate a realistic list once she gets those answers. Just remember often times no answer is an answer
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The feedback have been pretty straight forward and fit 3 buckets
- you’re not fast enough to make it recruit times, “politely” keep working at it, and reach out if you make the times. These coaches have either filled their slots, or are seeking times most of their current team cannot meet
back burner bin unless she improves her times in March/April substantially
- let’s schedule time to discuss what you plan, you are a good fit for us, do you have any questions, that’s how we train, when are your next meets
ask whether there are recruit slots left, which strokes, how she would fit, and ask likelihood of pre-reads
- No substantial response, though some of them have weaker teams on paper where D24 could certainly contribute
persevere with emails
for 1 and 3 i would remove them and move on for 2 get a solid day and time and get on the phone ASAP. Look at what conference the schools in #2 are in and reach out to new schools at similar levels within the conference. until you get to a solid 6-10 that you are in frequent communication with you need to keep researching and reaching out to new schools especially since this is crunch time for juniors.
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If you know #3 have weaker programs I would not remove this category.
My son was being recruited by several soccer teams that were ranked in the top 10 nationally (and got offers from several, and now is at one of those schools). There were several teams ranked like #75 or 100 where the coach barely replied, even when my son visited the campus in person.
I suspect one reason these programs are weaker is the coach just doesn’t put much effort into recruiting, for anyone. So I’d keep those schools in the mix.
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I absolutely agree with this. Continue reaching out. Much can change over the next 6-7 months.
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I agree with keeping #3 group schools your child is seriously considering on the list. But, I will give an alternate explanation for a lack of response.
When my son was being recruited, coaches that believed my son’s times were “too good” for their conference were the least likely to respond. At least one admitted that he didn’t want to waste his time on such an unlikely recruit. So, if your child has a strong honest interest in attending one of these schools, don’t hesitate to let the coach know.
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D24 strategy remains numbers and facts driven
- some coaches in #2 have replied after not replying earlier, could happen again. one of her #2 schools is one divisional ranking behind one of the #1 schools, which reaffirms that only coaches can tell positively what they want.
- can’t read into why #3 haven’t actively responded. So she continues to actively email #3. only if a #3 responds definitely, they’ll move to #1 or #2
- no coaches have confirmed strong support / pre-reads. effectively, the more discussions are active, the higher the chance of securing a slot.
- Once couple schools moved into #1, couple schools were added to her list.
However, D24 is not far from maxing out on the list of schools she’s interested in from a fit/academic standpoint, so whilst swimming is important, education remains the primary objective of university selection. She prefers to be recruited to a school she likes, but if that’s not to be, she’ll apply as a regular applicant to a range of schools she likes, with swim walk on potential or no swimming possibility at all
Just wanted to throw in our experience with D22. I know you are international so it is really hard to visit. But visiting the school, having feet on the ground, showed some of the coaches that D22 was really interested in the school.
Coaches who had seemed lukewarm before the visit were much more interested knowing that the school was a serious consideration. Because a lot of the academic D3 schools can be in remote locations, if you take the time to travel there it shows them that you are really interested in their school. Best of luck!
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Thanks for your honest and valuable advice. International student’s ability to do off-summer visits invariably depend on distance, traveling cost, their existing course load, and their swim meets.
There is only one holiday between now and summer, immediately followed by academic year end test cycle, so D24 cannot attend swim meets, prepare for exams, and travel around the globe to visit schools to show intent. Any coach can understand that, and if he/she intends to give D24 pre reads (which shows the coach’s intent), early summer visits will be scheduled. If emails, phone, zoom calls, times, grades, SAT/ACT, profile and scheduled visit aren’t sufficient to convince a coach about fit and intent, then it will not be the right fit for D24 to be recruited by that coach.
D24 added another time to her list which reaches T8 in two conferences, in an event which isn’t included in their Conference Championship, and isn’t included on the lists for other conferences.
It takes her T16 times to 4-2-2-2-0 for schools in the 5 conferences she’s targeting. Of course, she’ll participate in races in the longer distance for this event in some of her coming meets.
Presume this time is much less relevant to coaches since it can’t earn championship points, but would only earn points at regular meets. Is it relevant at al? But it does confirm to coaches that she still consistently hits PBs, and has positive momentum going into her upcoming meets, and that’s update material.
It’s great to be able to provide a positive update – even if it isn’t a conference event.
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D24 added a school where her times would currently be Top1-5 in 5 events, including several junior/seniors. One would assume that it should be a pretty safe choice to qualify for Pre-Read. We shall see if the coach thinks similarly.
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D24 times would rank as follow for a mid tier NESCAC school in the 2022-23 season (based on swimcloud reported times):
50 F #8
100 F #3
200 F #5
50 Fly #1
100 Fly #5
100 IM #4
This thread would suggest positive feedback from the coach, but D24 still awaiting zoom call post emails.
would seem fair to ask this group to
a) “chance me” to reach pre-read
b) “chance me” to reach recruit status.
No&No would assume the coach suddenly recruited a much stronger team of freshman swimmers for 2023-2024, and it’s seeing the bar yet higher for 2024-2025…
I can’t chance your D because I have no idea if coaches have a need for someone in these events and/or if they are already full for class of 2024. I wish her continued good luck as she goes thru this process and hope some coaches engage.
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