UCLA and Berkeley only have one round of admission, where all apps are typically due Nov 30. UVA has EA (in addition to ED and RD), so at any school that offers unrestricted EA, it’s important to make that deadline for a higher chance of admission (provided the first choice school allows an EA apps to other schools).
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Thanks for the precision, calendar all set
1 Oct 23: Apply to Non-US High academic/Swim school. potential
LL issuance
1 Nov 23 ED/EA: target Div3/ivy swim schools. 1 ED school with coach support/LL + 1-3 EA schools + U of Virginia (non swim)
30 Nov 23, RD: Berkeley/UCLA EA, (non swim)
1 Jan 24, RD: Stanford (non swim/legacy)
D24 is learning to build content, videos, time/swimcloud updates,etc. Wonder if it’s worth re-emailing a coach who didn’t respond to an initial email. Or re-email, and acknowledge it’s a drop after 2-3 unanswered emails…
Absolutely keep emailing. Many coaches are very busy during their seasons, even over holidays as there are sometimes meets going on even over break. A lot of the schools are in areas with bad weather (Buffalo, anyone?).
If the coach doesn’t want her, who cares if you ‘bother’ them with lots of emails - they aren’t going to pick her anyway! If it is a case of them just missing the first email, well, the second, third or fourth email may get to the destination.
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Thanks for your continued encouragement as a community who share your experiences of the same. Some athletes/children are more active than others in learning to approach, write and give personal information to coaches they don’t know, but the process is definitely a great life learning experience
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Yes, keep emailing. I wouldn’t stop after 2-3 emails if you think it’s an athletic fit. Keep emailing as marks improve, or every month or so.
Coaches are busy and it’s a mistake to assume that they see and read every email from recruits that they’re sent. A lot of the process is more random, hit or miss, than recruits realize.
One good practice in timed/measured sports is to make sure marks are in the subject line and/or early enough in the body of the email to be captured by 2 or 3 line preview. A coach is much more likely to open an email with year and marks up front.
Something like…
Subject: ‘24, 4:06 1600m, WI State Champ
Will get a lot more opens than…
Subject: Recruiting inquiry
In general, get the important info up front, indicate interest in learning more about the program and the recruiting process, offer/ask to chat.
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Exactly. I concur that a compelling subject line is critical to getting coaches to open the email. Highlight whatever strengths the student-athlete has not only athletically, but academically as well (e.g., 4.0 uGPA, 34 ACT).
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More coach responses are coming through. some are very much along the lines of their swimming programs history. strangely, one really stood out to D24, because the coach is seeking times that are significant better than the times currently achieved by most of their swimmers. Is this practice typical and reflective of a coach who is seeking to improve his overall team results? in the end, he will still have to make up his final decisions based on the swimmers that he has available
You can only ED to ONE college…as noted by others. And do check the EA guidelines as REA and SCEA guidelines vary.
We had already addressed this matter in the thread. Indeed, there will only be one ED on her list with several EAs, or alternatively one REA (possibly with State Schools like Berkeley/UCLA/UVA/, Michigan) if there is no coach/school interested in her as a swimming athlete.
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My son went through track/XC recruiting, but I am involved in the swimming community. While there are differences, there are many similarities in the recruiting process.
Three things might be going on. First, pay attention to the times the swimmers put up last year at conference meet, not what they have done this season so far. Most college swim teams do not care at all about mid-season times. It’s all about the conference meet performance. Second, the team might happen to have a stroke group that is weak this year. If that is the case, the coach doesn’t want to recruit more student athletes who are weak compared to the rest of the team. Third, coaches have different philosophies on what the published recruitable times mean. Some coaches use those times as a bare minimum. My son heard from a few coaches for the first time right after he made published standards–the coaches indicated they had been watching him previously. For these teams, making these standards doesn’t mean there is a slot for you, it just starts the conversation. Most of the Ivy coaches (for Track/XC) fell into this camp. Some coaches list times that are a pretty good guess at what they will need, but are sometimes a little up or down for any given year. Some coaches list times that are aspirational–they know most or some of their class will be weaker than what they publish. Finally, some coaches seem to list performances that are simply delusional.
These times are just the initial sorting. If the coach has to choose between two swimmers with the same times, the coach will almost always go with the taller one, or the one who is rapidly improving. If the coach senses something isn’t right with the swimmer’s or family’s attitude, they will move on to the next swimmer. If the team doesn’t think the swimmer will fit in with the team, there won’t be an offer.
At the end of the day, coaches figure out recruiting strategies they think will work. Sometimes the strategies seem strange, but they work. Sometimes they are just strange.
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My guess is that OP is referring to Dartmouth. Their published times are in line with other Ivies (~Jr Nats) but if you look at the roster they do seem, as you put it, delusional.
Part of the reason is that the team is “artificially slow” since the program was cut during the pandemic and subsequently reinstated, but with significant coach turnover. At the same time, it is not surprising that the new coach is trying to aggressively rebuild the roster.
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You are absolutely right. Dartmouth is still recovering from being cut. They had a number of classes decimated by that. I don’t see them turning into an Ivy powerhouse, but they should be able to get themselves competitive with the bottom of the league fairly soon. They might not be getting the top picks of Ivy-recruitable athletes, but they will be getting Ivy-recruitable athletes. The competition for admissions slots is an efficient market.
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@LurkerJoe @TonyGrace Comments much appreciated, helps explain that some coaches also stretch/reach, just like college applicants have reach schools. This particular coach is actually a good motivation for D24 to continue to actively email a broad list of coaches, as each coach has their recruiting strategy/objectives, and in due course some of them may either turn silent or respond that she’s not the profile they’re seeking. of course, an important driver is how her own swim times improve.
ps: the original comments were mainly based on team swimmers’ PB times to compare apples to apples as a reference
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That is frustratingly common in our experience. Several programs have indicated they are seeking times that would put swimmers in the next level relative to the school(s) requiring them. In some cases, if the swimmer had these times they would surely go elsewhere. I suspect they eventually settle to fill the roster, but that’s just speculation based on roster ability at conference relative to current recruiting times. On the other hand, “Don’t ask, don’t get.” goes both ways.
6 posts were split to a new thread: SAT for MIT Athletes
it may not be the correct vibe, but the process itself isn’t entirely different from Tinder, with coaches and athletes swiping left and right. your conclusion is right on, keep training, keep communicating, keep emailing, keep swiping until there are true real people & motivated conversations. fingers crossed, hard work will pay
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Discovering that coaches are snowed under emails, and that except top D1 coaches who assign this job to ask assistant coach, they already have a full schedule and only have access to databases (swimcloud/regional meets/avalanche of emails).
One of the best origination channel remains the current HS/Team coach who personally knows college coaches on the athlete’s target list. This establishes a much stronger initial person-to-person link with verified input.
Of course, the athlete then has to leverage it into continuous communication/updates/contact, initially with email, then hopefully moving up to phone calls/text/zoom/visit.
This initial direct coach-to-coach contact can help a coach gauge the true development potential of the athlete, sometimes resulting in selecting a slightly slower swimmer with better future physical/development potential.
Ultimately, the coach is selling to gauge who will be a nice/good/easy addition to his/her team. that is of course easiest for athletes who tick all the admissions boxes (GPA/SAT/ACT).
Coaches are swamped because it is championship season; all leagues/divisions have championships in the next few weeks and then NCAAs in March.
After the season, they will move into ramping up recruiting efforts, with the big push in summer and early fall. All teams, not just top D1 teams, utilize the assistant coaches heavily in the recruitment team. Often, they are the first contacts that reach out and a recruit may not talk to the head coach until the assistant coach has decided the recruit is indeed a strong candidate. Once they are actively recruiting a swimmer, both coaches will be reaching out regularly to the recruit.
A high school or club coach that has connections will be just that; a possible initial connection. A college coach will NOT take a slower swimmer with potential just because they personally know a coach or the swimmer is an easy college admit; there are more than enough great students who are also already very fast swimmers. I would think in the situation you describe this would be a case of “we would love for you to try out/walk-on if you are admitted”, but this type of swimmer will not be actively recruited with support. Some schools actually use the NCAA time cuts as general recruiting guidelines. College teams want to win-period.
You mention regional meets, but you have to realize that the college swimmers being recruited at the elite D1 and D3 schools are nationally-ranked swimmers. Coaches can see their state and national rankings in databases, along with power rankings. The coaches were at the national meets to watch races and talk to the swimmers.
Your daughter can swim in college; you just have to be realistic with your expectations. You will need to balance the level of academics with the competitiveness of the swim team to find a perfect fit for your daughter.
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Are you asking a question?
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