I certainly have done stupid things I later regretted. Not related to racist name calling or feigning sex with a disabled person though. More like putting myself in dangerous situations or lying about something I did, like telling my mom I was going to a late movie when I actually went to a frat party (when I was in HS), that sort of thing.
I honestly can’t imagine using the words they used or doing the moves they did, not even in jest. In the risk/benefit calculations of my teenage and young adult years. the “benefit” portion of doing that would have been nil.
@Postmodern I believe they should be punished, but mostly as a message to other fraternities and sororities rather than because it will make the frat bros reflect on their views. Often all you need to do is to point out people’s bad behavior to get them to realize they screwed up, and my sense is that’s what’s happened.
The people who are seeing a minute of video and deciding that the kids are hard-core racists without knowing anything else about them are doing something that is far too often done these days, which is to carelessly jump to extreme conclusions, and then demonize anyone who doesn’t do or say things to your liking.
It’s interesting how people who view themselves as more humane than others can be so hateful.
BTW - I don’t feel like I’m engaging in righteous indignation. I view people who do that as moral hypocrites who cast first stones.
I can because I did it when I was in the Air Force. There’s probably no more diverse organization in the US than the military, and that included my squadron. We were always hurling racial jokes and racial insults at each other, but that’s because everyone worked together and got along, so it was really just a bunch of friends engaging in teasing and trash talking. Maybe it’s a tired, old phrase, but we really would have put our lives on the line for each other. Yet if someone saw a short video of that and had never been in the military, they’d probably think we were all seriously deranged racists who wanted to kill each other.
Some things - racism being one - are worthy of righteous indignation. If you’re not going to get indignant at racist language and ridicule of disabled people, what are you going to get indignant about?
“My take is that they figured what they were doing was so stupid and over-the-top that nobody would take it seriously.”
I don’t believe for a minute that these college students - ages 18-22 - are unaware that in 2018 it is not okay to use the racial slurs they did. There seems to be no end to the excuse making.
“It’s interesting how people who view themselves as more humane than others can be so hateful.”
Being held accountable isn’t being inhumane and hateful.
BTW, there are lots of issues with sexism, racism, etc. in the military. I wouldn’t hold that up as an example of being okay.
I get that you did that and everyone there felt OK about it, as far as you know.
My friend group, professional group, kids on the smoking stoop after school - whatever group I’ve been a part of in my life just hasn’t and never would.
Those sorts of jokes and banter (racist ones - not pretending to rape a disabled guy in a wheelchair) have occasionally popped up at extended family things and I always remove myself when it does. That was true at age 18 and it still is now.
Good luck with that. I’m all for banning harassment, but it’s not going to stop people from offensive jokes, epithets, etc, because they’re not always said in the spirit of harassment. That rule is for public consumption, not because anyone thinks it will work.
I really should walk away from this thread, but let me just say that my Hispanic career Air Force father probably didn’t enjoy all the racial insults and jokes “hurled” his way in some misguided idea of fun. But when you are a poor Mexican kid from the farm with a sixth-grade education and with few options for improving your lot you go along to get along. It’s sad to me that his Anglo brethren didn’t see that, but it was a different time. But, really, maybe not so different. sigh
^^^ That sort of stuff doesn’t happen in groups I’ve been in either - not even when I was in the AF or a cadet in college. Perhaps it’s the company one keeps, but when in the AF we more or less got put with our peers, it wasn’t a choice. It still didn’t happen.
And yet, we still had fun and camaraderie - even did skits (during field training). We joked about a lot of things, some that might be offensive in general (esp to pacifists), but I don’t recall anything racist. We were a team.
This is how I feel too. My classes are as fun as I can make them - we joke - we talk about real life (easy to do with science, esp) - we might fudge some school “nuts and bolts” rules, but I draw the line very abruptly (as mentioned before) about kids putting each other down in any sort of racist or sexist way.
I’m sure similar thoughts were expressed when the military integrated, accepted women, trans people, began prosecuting rapists and all the toher changes that made people angry in the day.
Why? One could argue that since the [racist] ad-hoc banter between friends was spontaneous, it exposed genuine racism. Yet the people engaging in it all got along well. If anyone really was suspected of being racists, they would have been shunned by everyone else, no matter what their race or ethnicity.
did you… did you just admit to using this kind of behavior while serving in our armed forces? big, big yikes. i think that’s all i needed to know… have a good day/afternoon/night.
Of course it goes on in the military but that doesn’t make it right or even okay. Again, the military has a lot of issues with racism and sexism. Slowly, I think that is starting to be addressed. Trying to excuse the behavior at Syracuse or in the military because “it happens” isn’t much of a defense for something that is repugnant.
It’s a large organization so it will occasionally have its racial incidents, but overall the military is among the least racist organizations in the US. People in the military understand that someone who says something that comes off as racist isn’t necessarily a hardened racist.
As for sexism in the military, whenever you get a large number of males together with a small number of females, there will be issues. That goes for any organization, not just the military.
There is a big difference between group members (military, frat, friends, etc.) hurling insults at each other as part of their group dynamic (don’t condone it but understand it happens and is considered part of the bonding within the group) and a group hurling insults and racial slurs at others with the intent of keeping them out of the organization. “We don’t want Ns and Ks or Gs” is not about bonding with each other. Kids need to grow up and learn you can’t just make excuses for this type of behavior. They are either part of it (they’ll be associated with it) or they need to leave.