<p>Unless one is really gunning for a academia or a great clerkship, I think the Hamilton is just a no-brainer. Shocked that more don’t accept it, really.</p>
<p>Wow - turning down a full-tuition scholarship at Columbia? How much real difference can there be between Columbia and Harvard or Yale, for job prospects, name value, quality of fellow students, everything? It’s amazing that few people accept.</p>
<p>She can’t go wrong. They’re all great choices.
She might be able to use the Hamilton as leverage for more money at UVA.</p>
<p>I don’t think I’d discount fit. You’re not going to do well in law school if you’re miserable. I didn’t even apply to Columbia for that reason. Also, it is a LOT cheaper to live in Charlottesville than NYC (or even Boston). If she saves $500 a month (which is probably too low) that’s $15k she doesn’t have to borrow…which works out to around $20k she doesn’t have to pay back.</p>
<p>Actually, she doesn’t have a Hamilton - I believe that mike brought that up as an example of a better offer than those my d has, which is still not compelling enough for many applicants when they have offers at Harvard or Yale. My d didn’t apply to Columbia, NYU, or Stanford because she thought the cost of living and/or travel expenses would make an already too-expensive school even more so. She was excited to see the reasonable cost of living in Charlottesville compared to DC, where she’s been for the past few years. Though now she’s exploring the living possibilities in Boston. :)</p>
<p>If I understand correctly, your daughter has four admissions thus far: Vanderbilt (full scholarship), UVa (roughly half scholarship), one more (let’s call it the “Concealed Highlevel Institution with Collegiate and Academic Greatness Overall”) which would be full pay, and Harvard at full pay.</p>
<p>So far as I understand, she’s also at Vanderbilt for undergrad, which I think does provide *some<a href=“admittedly%20minor”>/i</a> incentive to pick another school. (Or maybe this is another sibling?)</p>
<p>Of course, you can’t discount fit entirely – apologies if I suggested otherwise. But at some point there are other things that do have to trump, and you might well be facing one of those situations now.</p>
<hr>
<p>As an aside, almost everybody whom HLS calls gets in – I think upwards of 95%. We could have told you she wasn’t a longshot. :)</p>
<p>UC San Francisco School of Medicine professor (formerly a director of curriculum at Harvard, if memory serves) once described “fit” in the following way to some future medical students.</p>
<p>"Fit is important. It’s very important. And it’s okay to pay attention to seemingly trivial things in that respect. If you’re choosing between us and Penn and you happen to really like Philly cheesesteaks, or if you really like the Liberty Bell, it’s not stupid to pick Penn over us for that reason alone. If you like Chinatown and the Pacific Ocean, it’s not stupid to pick us over Penn for that reason alone.</p>
<p>Now, if the decision is us versus Thomas Jefferson [also in Philadelphia] and you really like Philly Cheesesteaks… well, you’re just going to have to go without for a few years."</p>
<hr>
<p>Of course, he’s picking in extreme situations; Penn and UCSF are almost precisely peer schools, and Thomas Jefferson is an excellent school but clearly not on par with Penn and UCSF as a research institution or in terms of selectivity. We’re not really facing either of those extremes here. But I thought it was a useful thing for him to say.</p>
<p>^^^ What a great quote - do you have the guy’s name? It would be very helpful on the college admissions board in a few weeks.</p>
<p>D had a lucky cycle and has some great choices. She’s been accepted at several T14 schools with no scholarship offers (Georgetown, Northwestern, Duke, Chicago - the not-great fit, and now Harvard), has half-tuition offers at Virginia and Michigan, and the full-tuition plus stipend offer at Vanderbilt. Waitlisted at a couple T14s, so Chicago and certainly Harvard were big surprises. She graduated from Vandy in 2009 and loved it - would not mind going back just because she’s already been there.
I read the top-law-schools board and so knew she needed to have a first interview before she could be accepted at HLS. Somehow I completely missed when that happened - I thought she said the interview she fumbled had been at Cornell. So it was a major surprise to hear about her acceptance today. </p>
<p>OT but future applicants might be interested - Cornell is the slowest school to respond of any on her list - she knows people who have been waiting since October for word of any kind (she’s been waiting since Thanksgiving). One of them says that when they send a decision by snail mail at Cornell, they strap it to the back of an actual snail. :D</p>
<p>Oh, I was thinking more in terms of networking and alumni connections. In some ways she’s already been to Vanderbilt. When she meets the big law firm partner who graduated from Vandy Law – it’s not quite the same, but it’s pretty close. She’ll know the area, she’ll know the sports teams, she’ll know the in-jokes. Picking (say) UVa effectively allows her to double her networking base.</p>
<p>That’s not huge, but it’s something.</p>
<p>I’d take HLS over full price at Vanderbilt, and over half-tuition at UVA and UMich.</p>
<p>If she can negotiate with UMich/UVA for a higher scholarship, then I’d lean toward UMich/UVA.</p>
<p>I’ve completely forgotten the guy’s name, and I probably also shouldn’t quote him by name, since I can’t guarantee the 100% accuracy of the quote. But yeah, it was a great sentiment. Rankings matter more in law than in medicine, so you’d have to adapt accordingly.</p>
<p>Thanking you all again for the helpful input, and reporting that d has decided to attend UVA, which generously increased her merit scholarship offer. She eventually wound up with 1/2 tuition offers at Duke, Cornell, and Michigan; full tuition plus stipend offers at Vanderbilt and Northwestern; and acceptances without scholarships at Chicago and Harvard (which of course doesn’t offer merit aid). </p>
<p>She spent a nerve-wracking few weeks deciding, and actually decided it was Harvard more than once, but in the end couldn’t bring herself to borrow that much money. Even considering loan repayment for public service, better career prospects, and help from us with living expenses, it was too daunting a prospect for someone who wants a career in education or family law. When she went to UVA for admitted students weekend, she knew right away where she wanted to be. Although it’s not quite a full-tuition scholarship, she’ll only have to borrow perhaps $30K - and UVA has a nice loan repayment program itself.</p>
<p>I’m almost sorry the admissions cycle is over because it has been fascinating to watch. Law school admissions are much more transparent than undergrad admissions. I’ve learned a lot that I’m unlikely ever to be able to use again. For the benefit of any future readers:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>There is a lot of merit money available for high stat students at top law schools (excluding Stanford, Harvard, and Yale, which are need-only). And schools expect to negotiate for additional merit money when students receive offers from peer or higher schools.</p></li>
<li><p>Though top law schools may say they consider previous LSAT scores with higher subsequent scores, they apparently don’t consider them too seriously.</p></li>
<li><p>A good classroom LSAT prep course can greatly improve a student’s score (though of course the student has to do the self-study as well).</p></li>
<li><p>top-law-schools and law school numbers are as helpful for prospective law school students as CC is for undergrad (and other) admissions.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Again, many thanks for sharing your opinions and expertise!</p>
<p>congrats frazzled- a great decision was made by your daughter. I think it very wise and prudent to go with the scholarship from UVA.</p>
<p>the combination of obtaining a degree from UVA as well as keeping the debt level down is just a wonderful situation to be in.</p>
<p>Why did I know this person would be a female before I even opened this thread =p</p>
<p>frazzled 1 - thanks so much for your updates and comments. question - when your d’s schools adjusted their merit aid/financial aid packages …how did that come about? did she contact each of them and request review of scholarships/grants and financial aid and did she also request preferential packaging? what’s the best way do you think to approach the schools about these $ issues? i have a d in a the process now and there are several similar schools that she is contacting about $'s.</p>
<p>congrats to your d on UVA.</p>
<p>Thank you, condor30 - sorry that I somehow missed your question over the past few days. From what my d has told me, the only school she contacted to request a reconsideration of her scholarship offer was UVA, because it was where she most wanted to attend. She emailed the admissions dean after she received a full tuition/stipend offer from Northwestern (ranked close to UVA) and acceptances from two schools that are higher-ranked. She hoped that the combination of factors would encourage UVA to raise its initial offer. She wouldn’t have thought to do this if the top-law-schools board hadn’t made clear that law schools expect students to negotiate for more scholarship money. If I can believe what I’ve read on TLS, it’s done all the time, so your d would be in good company.</p>
<p>I think that most students raise the question via email. I’ve also read that some schools are willing to discuss the possibility of more aid by phone. The important thing apparently is to have a better offer (more money or acceptance from a higher-ranked school or both) to negotiate with. Good luck to your d!
Why, thank you too, hypsmc42! :D</p>
<p>frazzled1 - thanks for the info. my d continues to contact schools where she is accepted and is still waiting to hear on acceptances from a couple more schools. there are a lot of factors to look at as she makes her decision. receiving any grants and scholarships will be a plus.
glad to hear that things worked out well for your d. best wishes for her success.
we’ve noticed that with law schools they do seem to commit the grant and scholarship $'s for the entirety of 3 years which is a good thing.</p>