<p>I hear alot about the T14, but would going to vanderbilt be that much worse than going to UVA or Georgetwon?</p>
<p>I cant see that that line is such a big, uncrossable one...</p>
<p>it's a frequent on-going debate on the law school discussion.org website. For the uninitiated, that's a site geared to students going through the law school application process or taking the LSAT's now.</p>
<p>Alot may depend on where you want to practice law. If you are planning to stay in the SE, Vanderbilt may be a great option.</p>
<p>I will tell you that if my NY kid has a choice between Cornell, Georgetown and Vanderbilt, I will try to strongly encourage her to go Georgetown or Cornell.
As she may stay in the NE area, I think she should take advantage of a T-14 acceptance.</p>
<p>General rule of thumb: The T-14 has a great deal of national purchase. If you graduate from one of these schools, then it shouldn't be difficult to land a job in any of the major markets. However, though I would hardly say the barriers are insurmountable, there is a marked drop off in national marketability once you go below T-14. My guess is that schools ranked 15-20 still do fine, but they're also where you start to see more and more graduates obtaining regional jobs. If you love Vandy and want lots of job options, that really just means you'll have to graduate higher in your class. If you're fine staying in the area, then there's less pressure for you.</p>
<p>I agree that it is a complicated issue, and a lot depends on whether you want to spend your career in the northeast. I, personally, can't believe there is ANY drop-off from Georgetown to Vanderbilt.
The other issue is- If you are sure you are going to live in Nashville, for example, you might want to save some money and go to UTenn. I talked to a couple of hiring partners at top Nashville firms recently and they both said they like the UTenn grads just as well. HOWEVER, they are taking UTenn grads from higher up in the class, and Vandy grads are very hireable in Nashville much lower down in the class. Same would apply in Georgia with UCa v. Emory. Both Emory and Vanderbilt have a little more "reach", so it really depends if you can figure out where you want to live. To me, that is a tough call and the main reason I would shoot for a school high on the ranking list.</p>
<p>I think it matters. All the top 14 schools are national law schools. The others just aren't. This matters for two reasons: (1) I suspect fewer out of region law firms and other employers recruit on campus. I can not say with certainty that is correct, so check out for yourself which firms recruit on campus. (2) attorneys outside the South are less likely to know how highly Vandy law school is ranked. Most folks--at least attorneys--know Duke Law is a top law school. I don't think Vandy has that sort of recongition outside the Southeast.</p>
<p>Don't forget, however, that the T14 are hardly a uniform pool, in and of themselves.</p>
<p>If I may extend the threat, what about the lower tier-1 schools (35-50)?</p>
<p>Sorry, I meant to say 'thread', not 'threat'.</p>
<p>Big law firms which pay the highest salaries recruit less from lower ranked schools and require higher class ranks. For example, almost every 1-6 graduate can get a biglaw job, while maybe 2/3 of 7-14 graduates can, and about 1/3 to 1/2 of 15-20. Dropping down to 35-50, you'd probably need to be in the top 15-20%.</p>
<p>Dadofsam posted a great article in the other thread that basically states the difference between the T-14 and lower.</p>
<p>"About half the graduates of the top 14 law schools go directly to jobs at the nation’s top 250 law firms where starting pay can reach $160,000 a year. (Others at the elite schools go on to clerkships, and then to the big law firms.) But at Tier 1 schools below that level, only 19 percent got the coveted big-firm jobs. The percentage falls to 7 percent at Tier 2 schools."</p>
<p>I think that speaks for itself. There is indeed a divide between 14 and 15.</p>
<p>Yea, it's not like choosing undergrad. Go for the big-name colleges!</p>
<p>Re: 10: Actually, I don't think that's a valid (conclusion follows from premises) conclusion.</p>
<p>For example, I could just as easily draw the line pre-Georgetown. About half the graduates of T13 go on to jobs at the nation's top 250 law firms, then -- and because GULC isn't going to bring up the average that much, it's still true that at Tier 1 schools below that level, about 20% do.</p>
<p>In other words, the OP is asking specifically about the divide from 14-15. Talking about the aggregate groups of schools 1-14 vs. 15-50 doesn't really do the trick.</p>
<p>Let's not forget- Georgetown is a unique environment onto itself. Though
their part time program may include applicants who are on the lower end of a T-14 acceptance and view it as a way to transfer into a full time T-14 school, it also includes federal employees and others who have established careers in the DC area and who wish to go to law school "part time" and continue working.
So it is possible that a % of Georgetown grads may not be looking for top 250 firms upon law school graduation as they have established careers in the DC area- as they are continuing their employment with government, non-profit agencies etc.</p>
<p>Lets not quibble over the difference between T 13 or T 14 or above.<br>
I think the usual response from most, is that a T-14 degree may give you greater job flexibility throughout the country and just not in a particular region.</p>
<p>so BDM- did you make your decision yet?? Good luck to you.</p>
<p>My point wasn't that Georgetown doesn't belong. I was using it as an analogy to explain why I don't think the OP's question is fully addressed by the situation in question. I could just as easily have drawn the line pre-Duke and compared T12 to everybody else, and you'd get a very similar analysis. Or even pre-Berkeley, and then T5 compared to everybody else. The point is that we're not discussing "everybody else," we're discussing a very specific tier of schools that the OP is curious about -- and I haven't yet seen statistics for those.</p>
<p>I see your point. Basically since we don't have that stats for each school we can't really say that there's a divide between Georgetown and Vanderbilt in particular. Instead we're looking at the schools as a group and it might be that the T-10 are pulling up the averages...etc. However general consensus is that the T-14 is what is nationally marketable. And in general people group 15-50 together because they are regional schools, with not much national mobility.</p>
<p>I'll just say this much. On the West Coast Georgetown has a great reputation, particularly for its law school. Hardly anyone knows of Vanderbilt though and looking at admissions statistics alone, I'd say that there's definitely a "divide" between 14 and 15.</p>
<p>Hm. Looks to me like T15 might be a better catchphrase -- including Vanderbilt.
<a href="http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf</a></p>
<p>thats a very interesting chart...id say vanderbilt is up there...I had never heard of the Top14 before CC, leads me to beleive its a bias people pick up here, i alwyas thought vanderbil twas very well regarded everywhere, maybe its jsut he same old southern bias</p>
<p>The T-14 is NOT a bias people pick up on CC. As nerdy as it sounds, check out any law forum or ask any (decent) lawyer in real life and they will know about the T-14. </p>
<p>But I know what you mean. For example, NYU isn't really that well-regarded for undergrad nor its other grad programs, but its law school is ranked in the top 5. I was pretty surprised when I found this out.</p>
<p>The chart is indeed interesting. Look at Yale's percentage in judicial clerkship!</p>
<p>Yes, T-14 is bantered about elsewhere. My clients, who ask for specific schools, typically tell me they want attorneys from either top 10 or top 20. I don't hear T-14 from the law firms or companies. When they say top 10 though, I know I can go a bit further down the list.</p>
<p>T14 is a real concept spoken about frequently in BIGLAW hiring committee meetings. The idea is that there are 14 "top 10" law schools in the U.S., thus, the T14.</p>