Take a year off? PLEASE HELP!!!

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Hi all,
Should I take a year off to boost my GPA? </p>

<p>My GPA was 3.83 at a liberal arts college, now 3.34 at Ivy (after I transferred), with a cumulative GPA of 3.56, and science GPA of 3.45.<br>
I did research since high school, volunteered for hospitals and others, have 3 majors, worked in hospitals and other jobs. I am also an unrepresented minority and got a unique personal story. Yet my MCAT was only 24O (9BS, 9PS, 6VR) when I took it as a sophomore. </p>

<p>I want to apply for MD/PhD. Should I take a year off to increase my GPA and take MCAT a year later when I have more time to study? Or should I retake the MCAT now and apply over the summer and see what my chances are? Will reapplying to medical schools or taking MCAT 3 times be a problem?</p>

<p>ANY comments and suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Thanks!</p>

2

<p>1.) The "index" is a handy way to combine GPA and MCAT score into one number for convenience purposes. This is a widely-used shorthand in pre-med language but you need to bear in mind that this is not an official number and, in fact, that the term "index" is of my invention.</p>

<p>Here's the bad news: Your index is currently a 58.5. For the record, one of my friends has a 79 and has been admitted to exactly one MSTP program out of the several that he applied to. Three index points is a very meaningful variation. 21 is ... staggering.</p>

<p>2.) URM status buys you some extra index points. Being Hispanic is worth approximately five and a half. Being black is worth about ten.</p>

<p>3.) Similarly, being at an Ivy buys you perhaps one point.</p>

<p>4.) The triple major buys you nothing.</p>

<p>5.) The catch is that you're applying MSTP. While MSTP students traditionally have higher indexes, URM's are rarer there, and so it might well be the case that URM status matters more in MSTP admissions. This I don't know. Your advising team will probably have a better handle on it.</p>

<p>6.) Even very-well qualified MSTP students are not often admitted directly out of undergrad. So yes, you need to take time off and do research, even if you were sitting on an index of 75. Publications will matter a great deal.</p>

<p>7.) Taking the MCAT with the expectation of taking it another time is never a good idea. Study hard and get those numbers up the first time around. Or, in your case, the second.</p>

<p>8.) Remember, a balanced MCAT score is very important. One of the ways that medical schools refer to your MCAT score is by examining your lowest subsection. For example, my premed advisor has been known to sometimes slip into that mode. For you, she would refer to your MCAT score as a "six" -- hardly a flattering assessment.</p>

<p>9.) Since you are going into a research-oriented career track -- at least, you had better be if you're applying MSTP -- then the prestige of your degree WILL matter. It WILL make a difference if you attend a top-flight medical school. (More importantly, if you do your thesis work under a top-flight researcher.) So you do very much need to play your odds very carefully.</p>

<p>My friend's 79 got him into a school in the top twenty-five. You need to be very clear about what you're facing here.</p>

<p>10.) Applying to the same school twice is NEVER a good idea. The first thing any medical school will see about your application is whether you have applied there in the past. They will know that they rejected you the first time and will be unfavorably disposed towards your application the second time around. Generally second applications work best if you apply to a different set of schools.</p>

<p>11.) It sounds to me like you are a junior. Get the grades up. Find a job in a research lab in a high-powered institution for your off-year. Get a meaningful project and make sure you understand the research and that you think it's completable within a year of fifty-five-hour workweeks. Take the MCAT in April. Aim for a balanced 30 -- that is, straight tens. Do NOT take the MCAT until you feel comfortable hitting that score, which means straight elevens on practice tests.</p>

<p>12.) I say this as respectfully as I can. If you were an ORM or a racially majority student with an index that currently stands at 58, the truth is I would probably advise you to pursue another career. So please don't think that I haven't included all the bonuses that you've already mentioned. I most certainly have.</p>

3

<p>hi mike, what is the formula for that index?</p>

4

<p>10*bcpm + Mcat</p>

5

<p>You are in trouble. No offense, but the biggest thing you have going for you is your URM status. A 24 is too low for regular MD programs muchless MD/PhD programs no matter what your race is. A 3.5 is borderline for MD but again too low for MD/PhD. GPA is very hard to raise, much more so than a MCAT score. I suggest you take a year off and boost that MCAT to at least a 32 (easier said than done).</p>

<p>What do your research accomplishments look like? 4 years of nondescript lab slave work or do you have some pubs?</p>

6

<p>Hi all,
Thank you so much for all the comments and suggestions. Just to be clear, I am currently a junior, and have one undergraduate (peer-reviewed) publication. I am currently working on a second. I will be the only author for both publications. So I guess my best bet is to take a year off? Which option would be better: a master's or reserch publication?</p>

7

<p>The journal and the authorship (i.e. first author out of eight, second out of four, etc.) both matter a great deal.</p>

<p>If you were applying MD-only, they'd still matter but getting one out at all would be such a big deal that anything extra would be a bonus. For MSTP kids, those things are more important.</p>

8

<p>I'll dispute BDM's point #10...at least as it applies to the people I know at the schools I know best...and only to MD programs. </p>

<p>I've got a sizable number of friends who were initially rejected, reapplied and subsequently were accepted, all to schools they had applied to the first time. Now, all the schools mentioned were state schools with the exception of one, and all granted exit interviews with my friends to go over the weaknesses in their application and what they could do to improve the next time. In my discussions with BDM, this apparently is not something that happens everywhere, and I'm unsure if it happens at all as MSTP candidate. But in the cases where it did, my friends took the year (or 2) off to improve the discrepancies and each was subsequently admitted. </p>

<p>I believe that there is some advantage to being able to go back to a school and say, "I've fixed this and this, and done more of this". (ie, fix your MCAT, and continue to shadow and volunteer, or research). Again, that's just my experience.</p>

<p>However, if you have the chance to NOT have to reapply, that's the best scenario. You currently know that you're chances are not good. Taking the time to improve as much as possible, is a luxury you have. The people I'm referencing all had decent enough applications, usually just one below average area. </p>

<p>Also, while the AAMC apparently has removed it's requirement for special permission to take the MCAT a third time, doing so will raise eyebrows. It may be a good 5 years before that becomes even remotely common, and the stigma will likely hold even longer than that. You need to take the MCAT at a time in which you can get the best score possible.</p>

9

<p>Upon BRM's suggestion, I attempted to get exit interviews at the six schools that rejected me. One of them was flabbergasted by such a request, and the other five suggested I e-mail the AD's (Admissions Directors) but predicted that I would not have any success in my queries. They were right.</p>

10

<p>There you go...just goes to show you that the application process at some schools is much more transparent than at others. Whether this is a state school/private school thing I don't know, but it's interesting. I'm not really sure how to interpret this dichotomy because some of my friends literally got 45minutes to an hour with the admissions secretary to review their application and file...</p>

11

<p>What is MSTP?</p>

12

<p>MSTP=MD/PhD programs</p>

13

<p>


bdm, I know my math skills have weakened with age but does that quote (and your friend's 79) suggest a 4.0 bcpm and a 39 mcat is a realistic goal for a MD/Phd candidate at a Top 25 Research oriented medical school? :eek: D has always been told a 3.6/36 or 72 would be O.K. for med school. Those other 7 pins will be a booger to knock down. To say the least.</p>

14

<p>Or a 3.9, 40. Obviously there are other accomplishments that could in theory offset numbers -- for an MSTP, publications and authorship are very important and my friend was lacking in this area. MSTP admissions are extremely competitive at research-oriented schools -- much more so that MD-only programs.</p>

<p>I should mention that since the time of posting he's been admitted to two other very selective programs.</p>

15

<p>Jiminy. Tough stuff.</p>

16

<p>to the op</p>

<p>i'm just curious, what were your sat scores?</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
If you were an ORM or a racially majority student with an index that currently stands at 58, the truth is I would probably advise you to pursue another career.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's a bit harsh. If you really want medical school, time off, productive research, and a substantially higher mcat could work wonders.</p>

<p>By all means, do NOT take the MCAT again until you have studied your way way up to the best score you are capable of getting. Huge waste of time and money, and potentially counterproductive.</p>

<p>For MD/PhD, your research productivity will be quite important. If you are publishing then this could make up for a sub par academic record. </p>

<p>You are the only author on two research publications? That sounds very strange. Were you working with professors? Were these published in peer reviewed scientific journals (the only publications that count in this context)?</p>

18

<p>You searched for applicants:
Whose applications are complete
MCAT score greater than 23 and less than 25
Overall GPA greater than 3.40 and less than 3.50
Applied MD and accepted at any medical school</p>

<p>The following profiles matched your search:
00676 Augusta State University, 24 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2003
00941 Boston University, 23 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2003
00855 Cal Riverside, 23 MCAT, 3.42 GPA, applied 2003
01551 California State University, Long Beach, 25 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2004
02752 Columbia University, 25 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2005
06060 Creighton University, 25 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2006
02366 Excelsior College, 24 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2005
03127 Florida State University, 24 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2005
00360 Idaho State University, 25 MCAT, 3.44 GPA, applied 2003
01033 Lyon College, 23 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2004
00359 Michigan State University, 23 MCAT, 3.45 GPA, applied 2003
01922 Michigan State University, 23 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2004
05078 MSU, 24 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2006
01107 Oklahoma State University, 25 MCAT, 3.48 GPA, applied 2004
01669 Pacific University, 25 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2004
07073 Saginaw Valley State University, 25 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2007
01146 SUNY-Binghamton, 25 MCAT, 3.42 GPA, applied 2004
02673 SUU, 25 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2005
01283 UMass - Lowell, 23 MCAT, 3.46 GPA, applied 2004
00776 University of GA, 23 MCAT, 3.45 GPA, applied 2003
04333 University of Memphis, 23 MCAT, 3.42 GPA, applied 2006
00873 university of oklahoma, 24 MCAT, 3.45 GPA, applied 2003
01275 University of Pennsylvania, 24 MCAT, 3.49 GPA, applied 2004
02189 University of Pittsburgh, 23 MCAT, 3.50 GPA, applied 2001
04654 University of Richmond, 25 MCAT, 3.42 GPA, applied 2006
02687 University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, 25 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2005
03012 Western Carolina, 24 MCAT, 3.41 GPA, applied 2005
04081 Western State College of Colorado, 24 MCAT, 3.47 GPA, applied 2006
00819 Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI), 23 MCAT, 3.40 GPA, applied 2003</p>

19

<p>1.) MSTP programs are usually more competitive than MD programs.</p>

<p>2.) I think the situation depends very heavily on specifically what race the OP is. He's told us he's a URM, but there remain discrepancies.</p>