@PurpleTitan It could be the essay. But it could also be lots of other things outside of a student’s control (school reputation, guidance counselor relationship, recs, geography, interest, what the reviewer had for breakfast, etc). There’s no way to know, so it’s attractive to think it was because of what the student did or didn’t do (and profitable for those who can make money convincing people it’s because of what the student did or didn’t do).
At colleges where most of the applicants have stats pressed up against the maximum possible, other factors are needed to distinguish between them. Subjectively graded inputs like essay, recommendations, extracurriculars, etc. serve that purpose, as well as the purpose of making the admission process more opaque to applicants.
@pantha33m You list many things that the student has no control over and the essays are one of things s/he does have control so I recommend it’s best to concentrate on the things you control and don’t fret over the things you can’t control.
Like many people say college admissions isn’t random. AOs aren’t perfect but these schools have been doing this for a while and they are pretty good at it. They know what they are looking for and how to find it. It’s a reason people come to this site.
@PurpleTitan I hear you…but we don’t live in England or France. And I really think there are plenty of kids who would love a school just as much as the next kid but have good reasons for not applying ED. As for choosing a major early, maybe other country’s high schools work differently. Our S19 has no space in his schedule to focus on any particular subject. Like most college-bound kids, his schedule is filled with honors or AP in every subject including foreign language. That leaves one spot for an elective (which in his case is always art since it’s his “thing”).
For better or worse he loves all of his subjects and won’t be ready to decide by the time he’s 17. When I took him to a Wash U presentation at a local hotel, he wrote on their form that he’s interested in English, Chemistry, and History. Then, when they asked in the presentation who might major in Art, he raised his hand! Truly undecided and I don’t expect that to change by October 2018.
I just hate that his choices might be limited because he needs more time…but we’re doing everything we can so he can land somewhere he loves! 2017 sure was a scary year when it came to the top kids and where they were accepted. We have a friend whose daughter is the cream of the crop in every way and was rejected or waitlisted everywhere but UIUC (our state flagship). She was all ready to go there and then Princeton came through with a spot for her! So…she’s Princeton material but almost ended up at Illinois. Bizarre.
Know that “showing interest” is more than visiting, getting on mail lists, or emailing an AO. Yes, it’s in how you know what a school offers you and what you offer it. (After all, if you’re truly “interested,” you did this, right?) And that can be related to academics or the campus community, depends on the applicant.
D2 did ED. I’m a stickler on how a kid needs to know match and, based on D1 (only 1 year ahead,) was confident of the aid.
But let me tell you, she made it though, found her perfect major, was very engaged and made fab friendships, great faculty contacts, is working in her field, happy. But in retrospect, we all know that reach was an academic challenge, during the four years. Zero regrets, but we sometimes wonder if she’d have lit a better fire at another college.
Of course, that can be true even with RD.
@homerdog: ??? Depending on the major, UIUC is pretty darn good and the gap between UIUC and Princeton in some majors isn’t that wide.
Also, that also depends on where else she applied. If she applied to only Ivies/equivalents and UIUC, only getting a UIUC acceptance shouldn’t be a surprise.
BTW, in many other countries, kids have to start narrowing several years before uni.
True, but not necessarily a good thing in terms of determining each kids’ career direction based on characteristics observed in middle school or early high school.
@PurpleTitan I know. I don’t know her whole list but I know they weren’t all Ivies. As for being disappointed about going to Illinois, it’s just the way it goes around here. Many kids busted their buts for four years and, sorry to say, I know many who are disappointed about heading to Illinois (unless they are comp sci). UIUC is having tons of money problems right now and professors are leaving in droves. Not ideal. I know what you’re going to say - they are lucky to be going to college and many kids don’t get that opportunity. You’re right. It’s just not the mindset at our competitive public school.
But I digress…
Yes, kids should apply to a good handful of “match” schools and should understand that top 25 schools are all a lottery.
@ucbalumnus: Indeed. Just saying that how unfair a system is is a matter of perspective.
@PurpleTitan “In any case, the U of C is giving a massive bump to those who ED.”
For a student who wants to attend a top school, is planning on grad school, and has high test scores but mediocre grades, ED at Chicago is the perfect option.
@homerdog: “I don’t know her whole list but I know they weren’t all Ivies.”
Well, I included Ivy-equivalents as well.
Did any of them have an acceptance rate above 30% in the round she applied in?
I think any “ordinary” excellent kid who is unhooked is unlikely (well less than 50% chance) at schools with an acceptance rate below 20%.
@homerdog at our IL high school it is primarily ECs and essays sort the top 15 - 20 kids into UIUC vs Ivies.
They all have the grades and test scores. It often comes down to that “something extra.”
There were days when that was true (substituting “EA” for “ED”), but they ended a decade or more ago. This year, the first in which ED was offered, I don’t think there were people admitted ED with “mediocre grades” and no clear compensating hook. What they had was lots and lots of applicants with great GPAs, great test scores, and great essays, and very few of those people who applied EA or RD were admitted unless they had massive hooks, too, while Chicago admitted a decent percentage of those people who applied ED.
To @Chrchill 's point above: The strategy worked fine this year to produce a class with high stats. The questions are whether it will work next year, and will they get as many as half the applications they got for the past few years?
Yes, “mediocre grades” would make it extremely difficult to gain acceptance to Chicago or any of the other Top 30 to Top 50 schools, and more, without a very significant “hook.” Many trends have coalesced to make those schools extremely competitive, even in the early rounds. Fortunately, though, there are many, many terrific schools in the U.S., and elsewhere, so hopefully students (and their families) will not stress too much about circumstances but strive instead to find a great fit for themselves if it does not work out at any of these top schools, which they might feel is a good fit for them.
@JHS you keep underestimating UChicago’s utter hottnes, and thenever imcraesingl global demand for seats at the elite schools.
@Much2learn Not to beat a dead horse but the student I’m talking about is not an average-excellent student. Very special ECs in STEM (including individual state championship Science Olympiad project junior and senior year). I believe she has won individual awards for her cello playing and was even paid for an app she wrote for a large well-known company.
I know a lot of average-excellent kids and I think she stood out. Obviously, if she ended up with a nod from Princeton in the end, she’s more than average-excelllent. I’m sure being a girl with no hook was an uphill battle for that spot. For whatever reason, they pulled her from the waitlist. Maybe the cello players in their original acceptances turned them down and that got her the spot!
Possible. All the elites are looking to round out a class and with so many filling up their class through ED/SCEA, it’s hard to tell what slots are left in RD. Which means there are no guarantees at any school with an acceptance rate below 20%.
As an old-timer on this site, I wonder whether my kids could have succeeded in the current environment, particularly with the premium on ED. I don’t think I could have successfully herded them hard enough, early enough. Also, since they each applied to only 6 colleges, ones that we worked hard to identify, the greater competition today might have been their undoing if this process became more like a lottery. One mistake we may have made was in checking the box on needing financial aid, when we didn’t need it. In the current environment, I’d be careful NOT to do that,
I wonder if they’re disingenuously surprised when they end up with a schism on campus. If you’ve effectively priced out all but people who can pay trivially and people who don’t pay, you built a natural conflict between two cohorts who come from different planets.
ED chances for non-hooked applicants is only slightly better than RD at most elite schools. Does it increase a non-hooked applicants chance 100%, from 10% to 20%, probably, but the odds are still better of not getting in. That said, if you have the chance I think most people will continue to take it.