<p>A couple of people have told me this is a bad idea, but I don't see how.</p>
<p>After I complete my first two years of undergraduate studies at my community college, I was planning to apply to all the schools I want to go to, and depending on which schools I get accepted into, I would take the appropriate time off to work and save enough to attend the schools in those ranges that I had been accepted to, then apply again after I save up enough to enroll, because then I know I have a general idea of which schools my appropriate skills and abilities will allow me to get into. So for example, if by chance I got into several Ivies, I'd have to take more years off to work because its cost of attendance is more than state schools. This way, I can even save up enough to even attend schools that are out of state since those are pretty expensive as well.</p>
<p>Since I do not have enough credit to take out bank loans, and maximum amount of federal financial aid will not cover my expenses at most schools, unless I can get more than $10k worth of scholarships every year (which seems unlikely) I cannot even go to a state school. I could take out Federal Direct Loans, but the maximum subsidized each year is something like $5,500. Even so, I heard that graduate schools will not accept an undergraduate student that is deep in debt into their PhD program.</p>
<p>If it was some freak accident that I got accepted into all of the schools I get into before I start saving up, and I get rejected by all of them after I save up enough money, well...there's always cheap city colleges nearby, and I'll have a ton of money to burn on extra textbooks and equipment...or I guess I'd just invest everything I have into gold or something.</p>
<p>Does taking time off school reflect negatively on a university transfer application or something? If so, how is it a bad thing that a student wants to save up enough money to complete school?</p>
<p>It sounds like a bad idea to me. If you’re going to take 10 years off you might as well just find the best job you can find and stay there for the rest of your life. It doesnt really make sense to save up thousands of dollars and then spend it on any school that late in life. </p>
<p>Not to mention, it will be EXTREMELY hard for you to get into any schools let alone top tier ones if you take that much of a break. They are going to take undergraduates straight out of a 2 year first. Also, right now you may think that you want to do this but in 5-10 years you might start to get comfortable,or worse you still cant afford to go, and then you realize that school is not a good idea. If this happens then you’re stuck with you AA degree probably working at a job that pays less than $20 an hour (unless you get lucky). Im sure if you dont have as much money as you say you do then you will get good FA at a state school. After, you graduate from there you can take a few years off and maybe go to a better school as a graduate. </p>
<p>Bottom Line: If you can go to school now DO IT! :)</p>
<p>I don’t think there are any jobs I can get with a high school diploma other than entry-level minimum wage jobs, as I have no particular job skills in any field, and I don’t want to work at McDonald’s for the rest of my life. I would like to work as an independent researcher after getting my PhD in Physics, but that and academia is a longshot, so I will most likely end up in finance with the skills I obtain in computational Physics, though I will keep my head up for opportunities of any research jobs that might arise. There is almost literally nothing you can do with a bachelor’s in Physics, so I would have to head straight off into grad school like every other Physics graduate unless I want to keep working for minimum wage.</p>
<p>My question is why do schools have an adversity towards poor students, even if they have the same amount of skill in a field as someone who is wealthy?</p>
<p>I’m only asking because I have no other option than to work. I cannot afford any school, therefore I am forced to work until I can afford school, and that’s not my fault I was born into a destitute society. Why is this being held against me?</p>
<p>I think this is less of a “will I get accepted again after 10-15 years” issue and more of a “will I want/be able to go back to school 10-15 years from now” one.</p>
<p>A couple things: A lot can happen 10-15 years from now. Assuming you’re about 20 y/o, you’d then be 30-35. You may have started a family and that money would be better invested in providing for them than for you to go to school. Not saying you will, or should, start a family by that age, but you never know. At 17 I was saying I would never get married and would be a lifetime bachelor like my uncle. 3 1/2 years later I married the love of my life. Stuff happens.</p>
<p>Next is the potential earnings issue. I have read articles and reports that people who go to work right away instead of college have a potential to earn more money over their lifetime than their college educated counterparts becuase for about 4 years you’ve been earning money while they’ve been spending it, and accumulating debt to pay on later - which you wuld in turn not have giving you more disposable income. The problem with this feature is that it can really be hit or miss with many variables affecting that kind of outcome like the college student’s major/career field, or family business connections, or the actual amount of student debt amassed etc. Though there’s some, few would be at a financial advantage by not going to school as early as possible.</p>
<p>If you really can’t afford it now, then that is certainly understandable as education does not come cheap these days (unfortunately). Take a couple to a few years off may be an option, but IMO 10-15 is a bit too far in the future to really keep to any plan you make today. Most Ivys know who can afford to go and who can’t and they give aid accordingly. If you’ve been accepted, the school obviously wants you to attend (either because of your academics, diversity, or financial guarantee to them). They usually do as much as they can to make it happen. Other privates are becoming more generous that some publics these days for low-middle income families. So apply to a few of those and see what kind of FA is offered. Staying in-state will be your cheapest bet (if you can live with family or share a house) because you will most likely be paying less for room and board that way than on-campus OOS.</p>
<p>Lastly I’ll mention that there are some other ways to pay for college. For example, many employers have tuition benefit funds for their employees or military service can qualify you for educational benefits. If you’re interested, I think the military would be a good option. A contract can be relatively short (4 years AD compared to your 10-15), you get paid for a guaranteed job during that time (unless you get kicked out by misconduct), you can obtain valuable job experience in some interesting fields, add some uniqueness to your future college resumes, and if all goes well and you’re Honorably Discharged you can be eligible for the Post 9-11 GI Bill which currently covers up to $17,500 per year plus you get a living stipend which is adjusted for Cost Of Living (For example a student in San Francisco would get more in the living stipend than a student in Utah somewhere). And it currently gives $1,000/yr for books and some other supplies. Basically, if you can complete/put up with 4 years of service (which isn’t all that bad if you can choose a branch and job you would be interested in), then they’ll pay you to got to school.</p>
<p>Thank you for the thorough input and insight. I have been interested in the field of physics, and a very specific subfield of it in materials science (metallurgy) since I was in high school, which was almost 10 years ago (so you can guess my age) and have no lost interest since. The reason why I am starting school so late is because I recently got out of a religious cult (or as they would claim, they excommunicated me) so now I am free to liberally pursue the science I was never allowed to dabble in. I have no reason to lose interest in it any time soon, and as you state, I have never been interested in having a family (or girlfriends/boyfriends or anything of that sort, for that matter), but as you also say, things might change. But considering the pattern so far, I don’t feel as if my priorities will, but who knows?</p>
<p>If I enter a minimal amount of debt, then what is the problem with any amount of income I can get by on, as long as I love my job? Again, the only other problem would be if I had a family, but that just brings us back to the toss up.</p>
<p>Back in high school, a few of my classmates who were accepted into schools like MIT, Stanford, Caltech, etc. had to turn down their matriculation at those schools simply because they weren’t offered any money to attend. If wealthy schools like those don’t give out any money to smart guys like these, how can a less-funded state school afford to give anything to a less talented guy like me?</p>
<p>As far as residence goes, I am lucky enough that there is a community college for me to attend nearby where I live (I live in a church, free of charge). Because I know the demographics of this area very well, I know all the spots where I can crash safely and obtain free food. I am nervous that if I travel away from here, I will lose the advantage of regional knowledge, or maybe in the area where the school is, there are less resources to utilize. My only issue with working whilst studying is that my 4.0 GPA will drop if I sacrifice any more hours of my studies into work to pay off rent/bills/taxes, etc. Thus my chances into grad school will fall, and if I don’t get into any, well…then I’ve really messed up.</p>
<p>The military option is something I have considered, and I didn’t understand the payment that well. Is being enlisted in the military mean you are on call 24/7 for a certain amount of years? Every hour of every day, you have to do what you are told by your superiors? Even in minimum wage, shouldn’t that be at least $60,000/year worth of work hours, excluding overtime pay? Especially if you are confined to a base with the same people for several years at a time?</p>
<p>My other concern is that I’d like to work in the field of engineering/chemistry/physics (either or) but I doubt that in the military they’d let someone without a degree to work in any of those fields. I’m not sure how much you know about this kind of stuff, but if you don’t, can you direct me to a source of information I can look up in regards to my inquiries?</p>
If we’re talking about 10 years ago, then things can be considerably different today. The one variable we won’t know is your friends’ family’s financial situations, meaning we don’t know if they “could have afforded to pay” in the eyes of the school’s FA advisors or if they really just got the shaft. I’m not completely sold on the notion that it will be extremely difficult to gain entrance into a PhD program with certain amounts of student loan debt. A lot of PhD programs are funded through the school’s graduate program and a lot of PhD canidates are paid through a visiting professor’s research grants and such. You should consider looking into those for the school in which you plan to attend.</p>
<p>
I understand what you’re feeling. It’s cliche to say that the ‘unknown’ is a scary thought, but it truly is when there’s a lot at stake in someone’s life. I too would probably choose safety over risk-to-reward scenarios. If I were you I would definitely try everything to stay local, unless you had another safety, like the military . . . which brings us to:</p>
<p>
Sounds more like you’re describing prison. Er, without the whole being paid thing, though inmates are paid a small sum when they leave. The experiences you’re trying to outline will be greatly influenced by the type branch, and more inportantly, of the job that you choose to enlist into. For example, infantry train in the field most weeks, blowing and shooting stuff up (in a nutshell, of course) while not showering for days in all types of incliment weather. However, many administrative MOSs (Military Occupational Specialties, or your job) stay around office spaces on a base 9-5 (excluding physical training for about 1 hour in the morning) like any regular job. You are paid based on your rank (E-1, E-2, E-3 etc) and you advance in ranks automatically until E-3 or E-4 depending on the branch. After that you’re indirectly competing with all the other people in your grade (rank). So, if you want to be paid more, then you do your best to advance your rank. The longer you are in service, and the more senior you are in your unit, then generally the more likely a promotion will come around eventually anyway. It’s not uncommon for service members to make E-4 or even E-5 in 4 years. Here’s the kicker withyour underpaid inquiry: if you’re single you live on base in the barracks with 1 or 2 mates (kind of like a college dorm set-up where you all have your own space/corner of a large shared room and bathroom). For free. So you don’t have to pay for rent, utilities, garbage, or any of that. You also get to eat at the base chow halls (dining facilities) for free - you just have to drop by when their hours are open which is typically 3 meals every weekday and 2 meals on weekends. So the pay may not look like much if you’re thinking about paying bills and such, but then you realize you have no bills. I think I remember getting about $800 every paycheck (get paid every 1st and 15th of the month) and all I had was a $100-150 cell phone bill. So I had $1,500/mo to do whatever with. I remember thinking that I didn’t even know what to do with $1,500/mo as a 18 y/o who was in the field most weeks (so only had the chance to spend on the weekends) and had everything else provided to me. If I bought anything on base it was tax free too. If you’re married, you can live on base for free, or live off base and you will recieve a living stipend to pay for rent (the same living stipend you get with the GI Bill).</p>
<p>So yes, service members are typically underpaid for the commitment they make, but they certainly aren’t living in destitution and will be well taken care of in regards to basic neccessities (while not deployed anyway).</p>
<p>Back to the job thing - like I mentioned before there are a good variety of jobs between the different branches. Some will have you in the barracks every evening, so will have you in the barracks only on most weekends. Some will let you be more independent in your work, others will require a supervisor check everything you do - and another supervisor checking everything that that person does. I’m not sure there’s a job specifically related to physics, but there’s a lot of technology jobs that may be of interest (I don’t even mean computers and communications tech, I mean like meteorology equip and stuff more related to what you’d like). The Navy and AF will have the higher availbility of those positions. The Navy and Army also have MOSs titled “Chaplain Assistant” if you’re in ine with keeping up the religious aspect. I knew a Chaplain Assistant in the Navy pretty closely and he helped the Chaplain plan religious events, organize units’ families’ requests stuff, and acted as a “body guard” if that Chaplain deplyed (since Chaplains do not carry firearms). The Chaplain Assistant gig is an example of something that is almost stricktly 9-5 (or 8-4 or whatever) and your only “boss” is the Chaplain himself.</p>
<p>I hope that answers a few of those questions. To find out what is specifically available you can view each branch’s websites and they usually have a page where you can view available career options. Also, you could speak to a local recruiter if you become more serious about it. Only use them for completing what you would need to do to enlist and to get job information - don’t listen too much about what they say life in the military is like. I wouldn’t say they lie, but they are trained to persuade and word things a certain way to appeal to a prospective enlistee. Rely on others’ third party experiences like on this forum or other military related ones for that.</p>
<p>EDIT: Forgot to mention that you’re not confined to base while you’re “off-duty”, or not working at your apointed place of duty. You can leave base every evening and weekend if you choose. Technically, every service member is “on call” 24/7 because emergencies do happen, but generally you won’t be called back to base during liberty (off time) unless there’s been a security or safety risk somewhere on base. That’s happened to me like once or twice in 4 years and I was in a more demanding MOS. Yuor superiors don’t really want to see you any more than they have to.</p>
<p>I don’t know whether you have considered this aspect, but I just went back after 20+ years off. I had to learn algebra all over again, like it was brand new.</p>
<p>^The OP’s scenario would put tham at having an AA or at least having a big chunk of credits. Therefore, most likely they will be exempt from basic or lower reqs if they returned to school. They would only need to retake certain classes if they trully needed those skills to complete a further class that they absolutely forgot all about.</p>
<p>I too had to retake Algebra after 7 years removed from school because I scored low on the placement test and was a bonefide “forgot it all” student. However, if I had AP credit, or if I had passed a previous college-level course that covered Algebra or higher, then I would have been exempt and could automatically take a higher class.</p>
<p>My wife went back to school for a certificate program after a few years from receiving her BA and was considered to have covered all her gened through the BA (though the gen ed was required for the cert) and only had to take the major classes.</p>
<p>The only caveat with the credits is that some schools have “expiration dates” for credits. I wouldn’t mind retaking courses since they will be more easy 4.0s, but I certainly haven’t forgotten all 90% of the material I learned. I still remember all the self-taught Calculus, Linear Algebra, Differential Equations, Real Analysis, etc. so basic stuff like introductory Mathematics/Physics isn’t something I’ll easily forget. They do have libraries on base, yes? Even if they don’t have the Maths/Physics books I need, I’ll have the spare cash to order them online as you say, right? I can easily refresh any topics in my free time during my stay in the military.</p>
<p>But thanks for the very thorough information, turtlerock. I’ll be sure to make contact with each of the services to see what kind of jobs they are offering.</p>
I was on a relatively small base because I was in the smallest branch, and they had a full fledged library. Every base should have a library. Using the on-base library is absolutely free, and they have a lot more than the usual book materials. They will have videos and all kinds of stuff. They even had Rosetta Stone for a bunch of languages that you could just go in, pick up, and return when you were done. $500 language software for free. I walked around that library a bit and it seemed like they had a very wide range of sections. The library on my particular base also had a computer lab/room and a portion sectioned off to take CLEP tests, again all for free. Sadly, I found out about the free CLEP tests to service members late in my enlistment and couldn’t finish as many as I would have liked to knock out some required college classes. But they are free and you can take up to 3/day.</p>