<p>According to reports, another factor that leads to college taking more than 4 years is the growing number of students who must take remedial courses before they start their college requirements. This is a very expensive way to make up for a poor high school background.</p>
<p>My sister did four years full time, as that was what my dad would pay for. She wasn’t even close to done because of switching majors and a lot of foolish moves (taking pointless classes, dropping some classes halfway through to avoid getting “bad” grades rather than trying to improve them, etc). She is now in her 7th year (although she only goes part time now) and has at least another year or two ahead of her. She refuses to take out loans and my dad is no longer supporting her- plus, she would much rather spend her money on nice things than on college. </p>
<p>4.5-5 years isn’t that uncommon. I know very, very few people who go beyond that. However, many students (and parents) think “what’s the rush?” with this economy and if they have the money, they keep paying for school.</p>
<p>There’s no way I could have finished my programs in 8 semesters (BA, BS, and a minor) so I chose to go to school year round. I will have 11 semesters worth of credits (including one semester studying abroad) when I graduate but I worked hard to make sure I was only there for 4 years.</p>
<p>Doesn’t matter much what any of US think state or other schools SHOULD or SHOULD NOT do. It’s up to the schools to figure out how to balance their budgets and help move students toward graduating with a degree & getting out so new students can take their turn. </p>
<p>I know many people who are taking significantly longer than 4 years–some do a 5 year program that gives them a bachelor’s & master’s degree.</p>
<p>Every one of the UCs and CSUs that my son visited had the admissions people complaining about these “lazy” students taking 5 years to graduate. They wanted them out of there in 4, so more new kids could be admitted.</p>
<p>However, the department head told us during freshman orientation that the 4 year grad rate was 15%, 85% after 4 years and 2 quarters. As my son found out, class availability was a real issue due to budget issues (and it is only getting worse with the CA state budget issues). His department required a year long senior project, with several prerequisit classes, that could only be started in the first quarter. Needless to say, he did have all the required classes after 3 years so had to go a full 5 years to get his degree (and he did have several AP class credits to start with). He did end up with quite a few extra classes in his major. I believe those extra classes were a help when looking for a job after graduation as they were all higher level classes. </p>
<p>For reference, he lived in a house with 3 others; 2 of which also required 5 years to graduate, the 4th took 4 years and 2 quarters (and still had to pay rent for the whole year).</p>
<p>My daughter attends a private school with a very good 4 year grad rate. That, combined with a fair amount of merit aid, makes the private school comparable in cost to the CA state schools (where my son got no aid).</p>
<p>The small privates around here include “done in 4” in their marketing material. The state unis can’t make that promise. It’s wise, when money is an issue, to consider whether one will be paying for (and borrowing for) 4 years or 5.</p>
<p>I can’t emphasize enough the importance of reading the catalog and curriculum charts for your program and being proactive about scheduling. Many students coming out of high school assume that someone will tell them what to take and when. That’s not how a lot of colleges work. I also question whether in many cases it’s really the college’s fault if a full-time student can’t graduate in four years. Most schools have some form of priority registration in which students with the highest number of accrued credits get first crack at needed classes. If these students procrastinate in registering or make unwise course selections that deviate from the curriculum chart/audit, they may be out of luck, but that is hardly the fault of the college. If a class for which you have already registered is cancelled, most colleges will sub in another one rather than make a student hang around for an extra semester. Of course, if you have changed majors one or two times, that will also have an effect, but again, that’s not the college’s responsibility.</p>
<p>It’s extremely easy for students to check their academic audits online and know exactly what they need to take in order to graduate with a degree in a certain program. Many of them just don’t bother to do it.</p>
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<p>Exactly so. Most real accomplishments do require these things, so college is no exception.</p>
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<p>[University</a> of California: StatFinder](<a href=“http://statfinder.ucop.edu%5DUniversity”>http://statfinder.ucop.edu) does indicate that UC 4-year graduation rates have been increasing over the years.</p>
<p>I do remember that, a few decades ago, even Berkeley’s 4-year graduation rate was quite low (under 50%; more recently, it is around 70%). There are likely a few reasons for that:</p>
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<li> Fewer students need remedial English or math courses now. Back then, most of the freshman class needed remedial English. Now, it is around 8%.</li>
<li> More expensive cost of attendance is greater incentive to graduate on time. Many alumni remember when UC was extremely inexpensive to attend – but that also meant that students felt less financial pressure to graduate in 8 semesters or 12 quarters.</li>
<li> Some curriculum changes have been made that shorten prerequisite chains. One example is that Berkeley’s remedial English course is now combined with the first half of the normal reading and composition requirement in an “extra large” (more than normal credit units) course.</li>
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<p>That is not a good scheduling arrangement for a school that wants students to finish as quickly as they can. Delaying one prerequisite delays graduation by an entire year instead of just one quarter.</p>
<p>I’ve read several discussions on these boards about whether parents should insist on seeing their kids’ grades. I wonder how many paying parents insist on seeing their kids’ proposed schedules before registration and on seeing finalized schedules before classes start for each semester…</p>
<p>Sounds like helicopter parenting to me…so helicoptering has it benefits!</p>
<p>I ask my kids about their grades a couple of times a semester and, fortunately, they’re ready and willing to share. Like parentoftwo, I helped them craft schedules that would ensure their pre-reqs and gen-eds were done in the first two years. It was definitely a challenge and we’ve used both summer and online coursework to make it happen. Once they’re accepted into their majors it’s much easier to schedule and they know the ropes well enough to do it themselves or contact their departments/advisors for help.</p>
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<p>Oh I insist on knowing her schedule. I was all over getting her first schedule because I know how hard it is to get classes in the right order. This semester I let her do it and it was done ok. Courses were limited but hopeful next year will be smoother. She is on track so far. Don’t know her grades yet but she thinks they are good. She knows what she needs to have for grades to keep her scholarship.</p>
<p>Four and a half and five years is pretty common around here. We don’t see a lot of six or seven year plans, unless they include part-time or taking time off to work full-time.</p>
<p>Have had our kids figure out their own schedules since middle school–give them suggestions IF we’re asked. Generally we find out what they’ve registered for when we go to open house or when they’re ill & have needed to pick up homework. In college, have mostly been hands off as well & have not been disappointed.</p>
<p>There are a few privates I’ve heard of that will pay for your kid’s 5th year if the kiddo doesn’t graduate in 4 years. Architecture typically takes 5 years–kids we know who got merit awards have them for all 5 years of the program.</p>
<p>I’m glad we had our kiddos figure out their own schedules from middle school (where stakes were pretty low); they were quite used to it by HS and very able to plan their own schedules for college.</p>
<p>I knew one brother of a HS classmate who took 7 years to graduate from a state school because he switched from being a math major to Electrical Engineering in his third year and was working part-time. Hopefully, that was the last switch as adding another 4 years due to extensive unfulfilled prereqs and working part-time was causing him plenty of problems with his parents…especially when his sister ended up graduating in 4 years from another state institution on full scholarship.</p>
<p>Here in California It is becoming nearly impossible to graduate in four from a California State University (CSU). Both my sons go to CSU Sacramento where the four year graduation rate is about 10%. My older son is a Geology major who did not have to take any remedial courses and has taken a full 15 credits each semester but will be lucky to get his degree in five years. The budget situation has resulted in severe cuts in the number of classes that are being offered. Prerequisites for his major are Calculus, Physics and Chemistry. Because there are so few seats available in core courses he was not able to finish his three semesters of Calculus until the end of his sophomore year. He was not able to get into the first of three semesters of Physics until the second semester of his sophomore year, is taking the second semester now, the first semester of his Junior year and will also finally finish his lower division Geology courses this semester. He has still not been able to get into General Chemistry I which is a prerequisite for nearly all upper division Geology courses. If he can finally take Chemistry next semester he will finally be able to start taking upper division Geology courses at the beginning of his senior year.</p>
<p>My younger son is a freshman Physics major and was able to get into Calculus I his first semester due to a very high score on the placement test but there is no guarantee he will get into Calculus II next semester and it does not look like he will be able to take any Physics classes at all until sometime in his sophomore year.</p>
<p>The problem is that the CSUs have cut back on the number of Chemistry I sections at a time when more students than ever are majoring in Pre-med and Engineering who all have to take Chemistry. All Engineering majors also have to take three semesters of Calculus and three semesters of Physics. So, even though the number of Geology and Physics majors is very small they have to compete for scarce seats in lower division science and math classes with a very large numbers of students in majors that are very popular. When you can not even get into your lower division prerequisite courses during your first three years at a CSU, of course it is going to take five years or longer to get your degree.</p>
<p>That is the case for my niece & her BF. Neither had to take any remedial courses but are taking a very long time to graduate because they simply can’t get the courses they need and the courses are sequential & MUST be taken in the correct order. She’s an elementary education major & he’s a design engineer or similar. They’re at different CA schools but similar challenges in scheduling & getting needed courses.</p>
<p>That’s a pretty bad situation at CSU Sacramento. Seems like it would be better to do lower division at community college instead and then transfer. While community colleges have the same overflowing course problems, it should be cheaper to spend 3+ lower division years waiting for courses at a community college than at a CSU.</p>
<p>I have noticed that majors differ immensely in the numbers of credits required to complete prerequisites and majors. Some majors (and minors) require more than thirty credits of prerequisites if a student does not enter with advanced standing, while others require under thirty credits including prerequisites in order to complete. Changing majors late in the game (to a major that better fits a student’s interests and talents, or one that offers better post-graduation prospects) can easily add an extra year to the undergrad experience. </p>
<p>Students who add on undergraduate research or assume leadership in EC’s might also need to reduce their courseloads for some terms, and in some majors (I am thinking of some STEM majors, majors requiring language proficiency, and performing arts majors) it is not uncommon for students to have to repeat courses in order to enter higher-level classes. Sometimes students taking a major that is “impractical” might be advised to take extra time to add courses that will increase employability rather than do a post-bac, and this can easily add on an extra semester. Ditto for students who come to their major late in the game or transfer into the school after a couple of years elsewhere, and might benefit immensely from research opportunities and opportunities to get to know professors in upper-level classes at their new school or in their new major.</p>
<p>While I would stay clear of schools with very low 4 year graduation rates, I would also question very high graduation rates. It could be that students are pressured (through both institutional and financial concerns) to choose majors that will allow a 4 year graduation, in complete disregard of changing interests or employment prospects.</p>
<p>D experienced some of this. She was trying to decide among a few different majors. One of the advisors kept trying to get her to choose the major he had created and graduate in 2011. She kept reassuring him that her parents were fine with her choosing the major SHE wanted and staying up to one more additional year. Ultimately, she did stay and major in what SHE wanted to–cinema–instead of the new major he created. She may get a minor in that or double-major. He was very concerned that she not stay any longer than the minimum, probably thinking it would reflect badly on him. His major would not have helped her get a job, other than being a bachelor’s degree in an esoteric field.</p>
<p>Quote from HIMom:
“His major would not have helped her get a job, other than being a bachelor’s degree in an esoteric field.”</p>
<p>My daughter double-majored. When we looked at all the interesting courses she wanted to take in addition to her science major, we realized they could be bundled into a second humanities type major and she did so. At the small graduation ceremony for that esoteric major, a pamphlet was handed out listing all the graduates’ future plans - not one had a job lined up., although several were going on to graduate or med school. It was excruciating listening to the speakers extol the virtues of their major and their graduates, when so many of the graduates were sitting there wondering what to do next. D’s job came from her first major.</p>