Taking 5+ years to graduate...

<p>That was pretty brave of them to have a pamphlet showing none of them had a job lined up. I’m not sure I would have wanted to print that info. Why waste the trees & print? D will hopefully get something from her major in cinema–even that’s tough despite USC’s amazing rep in that field.</p>

<p>It was an nice pamphlet that contained a paragraph or two about each student and his interests, and about any honors thesis he had done. Some of the blurbs were fascinating. The last line was for future plans - some of the students were listed as planning to go to graduate school or med school, but I went through looking for those with jobs since that’s where my D was headed.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>A majority of universities seem to be unwilling to make their school and major specific career survey results available for all to see (Berkeley, Cal Poly SLO, and Virginia Tech are among the few who provide relatively detailed information).</p>

<p>Do the schools give you financial aid if you decide to stay 5 or more years? Or do they cut you off and you have to pay the full price after 4 years?</p>

<p>FirstMove, that depends upon the type of aid. Schools can put whatever limits they like on institutional aid and some do limit scholarships to 4 years. Federal aid like Stafford loans and Pell are not limited to 4 years, although there are lifetime limits.</p>

<p>I think five years can be the right pace for some students. Friend’s son is doing an engineering degree at our state U. He has some learning issues so he reads and works slowly (but meticulously). By stretching out his degree over 5 years, he has greatly reduced the stress and pressure, is doing a good job academically and been able to participate in an EC that is very important to him. It’s costing an extra $18k and is worth every penny! Added bonus: The extra summer between 4th and 5th year has given him more time to work in different industries. He has a number of job offers in hand and more self-knowledge about which is a good fit.</p>

<p>On the other hand, extending what is supposed to be an eight semester or twelve quarter degree program to more than that can be costly to the state university, if the student is an in-state student; this is important now due to the financial pressure that many state universities are facing. State universities often have policies intended to get students to graduate as soon as they can:</p>

<p>[UT</a> College of Liberal Arts](<a href=“http://www.utexas.edu/cola/student-affairs/Academic-Planning/Graduation/Tuition-Rebate.php]UT”>http://www.utexas.edu/cola/student-affairs/Academic-Planning/Graduation/Tuition-Rebate.php)
[Office</a> of Undergraduate Advising: Unit Ceiling](<a href=“http://ls-advise.berkeley.edu/registration/unitceiling.html]Office”>http://ls-advise.berkeley.edu/registration/unitceiling.html)</p>

<p>I’m encouraging my daughter to slow it down. While universities expect you to apply for graduation soon after you have accumulated over the required amount of credits, if the student needs longer than 4 years, they aren’t going to boot you out.</p>

<p>Of course this is just referring to students who are full pay/w Stafford loans. When my oldest needed to retake ochem @ her private college, she had to come home & take it at a public school, because the private school would only allow 4 years. Even if she had stayed there and just taken ochem without accepting aid, that would have counted for the 4th year& she wouldn’t have been able to continue. So she took a year away& then they welcomed her back for her senior year.</p>

<p>That’s an interesting twist, and a possible explanation of why so many STEM majors with lots of potential end up dropping STEM at elite schools once they hit a snag. One course repeat -especially after freshman year - and a student might be off-track for 4 year graduation, whereas a humanties or social science major cobbled together at the last minute would preserve the school’s 4 year graduation rate, but without regard to a student’s post-graduate employment prospects. </p>

<p>Back in my day, students in this position generally seemed to get a teaching certificate, enter law school, or begin a Ph.D. program, but these options are increasingly costly and unlikely to lead to secure entry-level employment.</p>

<p>Even now, if they are not pre-med and can afford extra time, many students will take the extra year if they are at a school that allows this, as do many state schools.</p>

<p>Some of these humanities and social science majors require only thirty credits or so, allow courses to be taken in any sequence, and have few core major requirements. A student forced to cobble one of these majors together at the last minute (compared to the student who drops STEM and declares the major early on) will not have had the opportunity to either form close relationships with professors or accumulate internships related to the major, let alone take more than the bare minimum of courses.</p>

<p>They would have allowed longer if she hadn’t needed financial aid, but at $50,000+ for year, she needed the aid!</p>

<p>I think if the parent is paying for most of the undergrad education–as we are–we have every right to ‘encourage’ our children not to dilly-dally. Changing majors is a potential problem, but had either of my D’s done that, I would have understood an extra semester or two because of that. Also, for science prerequisites, sometimes to keep the GPA up it is necessary to either drop or retake a class or two, which conceivably adds time as well.</p>

<p>S2 will take four years and a summer to grad. We had always said four years was it for us. DH is not happy about this turn of events.
S2 will be finished with his coursework in May 2012 but will have to do a summer internship before he can get his diploma. The internship was supposed to be done this Spring but he was unable to find one in his college town (college gives no help in securing internship even though it is required to graduate and we have to pay for it) plus still needed two more classes. So now he will be looking for a summer internship in our area so he can live/eat for free. The good news is that he will still be able to graduate in May, just won’t get diploma until internship is over.</p>

<p>S2 shares a house with three other guys. All started the same year ('08). Only two of the four will graduate in '12. Change of major and laziness seem to be the biggest factors.</p>

<p>I didn’t know it was so difficult to graduate from California State schools in 4 years. That really stinks for those kids and their parents! I wonder if this is the case in any other states? D1 and D2 both attended SUNY schools and both graduated in 4 years. D1 had 15 credits going in from AP classes and never changed her major. D2 had only 3 AP credits and changed her major once, but still managed to graduate in 4 years, even with an internship. D3 attends a private school that only accepted 9 of her 15 AP credits. She changed majors twice but took classes over Christmas and summer break at home and I am happy to say will graduate on time this May with the 150 credits she needs to sit for the CPA exam. Hubby and I will happily pay our last tuition payment in January. We’ve been paying since 2002! Yay!!</p>

<p>In Washington state- it may take longer because math curriculum in many districts is sloppy. Even strong students at the UW are struggling & profs are having to change the way they teach classes because of the poor math preparation.</p>

<p>Although my daughter got As & B’s in STEM courses in high school, she didn’t pass the test to take college level math at her university and is having to take over what she should have learned in high school- but she is far from the only one.</p>

<p>[UW</a> students behind in math, professors say | The Daily of the University of Washington](<a href=“http://dailyuw.com/news/2008/mar/10/uw-students-behind-in-math-professors-say/]UW”>http://dailyuw.com/news/2008/mar/10/uw-students-behind-in-math-professors-say/)</p>