Taking practice / preview lessons before applying to conservatories

College Majors Music Major
41

<p>Oberlin Conservatory offers merit aid based on the audition and the needs of the school. Overall, perhaps a third of those who are accepted are offered some merit money, typically within a few thousand dollars of $10K per year. They occasionally come up with higher awards, but not all that often. I do not believe that the Conservatory offers any merit money on the basis of academics.</p>

<p>Oberlin College does offer academic merit scholarships. In order to be eligible for it, your daughter would have to apply to both the College and Conservatory as a dual degree student. Unfortunately, that program generally takes five years to complete so even if she got merit money from both, you would still need to come up with an extra year's worth of whatever cost is left over.</p>

<p>Oberlin as a whole is known for providing need-based aid that is more grant-oriented than loan-oriented. There are some interesting statistics at</p>

<p><a href="http://www.oberlin.edu/financialaid/overview/commitment.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.oberlin.edu/financialaid/overview/commitment.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p>that breaks down need-based aid by family income level. You may be eligible for more need-based aid there than you think. Even at the $100K-plus level, most people who applied for financial aid received it with an average grant amount of over $10K.</p>

42

<p>Oberlin College does give merit scholarships (John F. Oberlin scholarship), and the Conservatory gives merit scholarships too (Dean's Scholarship), but they do not simply combine them -- as the financial aid officer we heard there explained, the money comes from the same "pot" -- so a hefty scholarship from the Conservatory or College (in the $10,000 plus range), if you get one, would probably reduce or rule out the same from the other. For double degree students, the awards are good for all five years. Oberlin also gives National Merit scholarships of $1000-2000 per year (for merit only, they say $1,000), for finalists listing Oberlin as first choice.</p>

43

<p>Re: the Yale BA/MM program. It's interesting, but also true that not many students end up doing it. One major problem is finding a good teacher for the undergrad years at Yale before the BA/MM program kicks in (senior year). Most (if not all) Yale Music faculty are only on campus one or two days a week, and devote the majority of their time to their grad students.
SO, returning to the theme of this thread, I would recommend some serious visits, or at least conversations, with teacher / contacts at Yale to discuss this in advance even though technically it is not possible to "audition" for undergrad Yale College teachers. It IS possible to contact the grad school and explore teacher possibilities and to contact conductors, but the music department itself is not terribly helpful in this respect. (note that the Yale College dept. of music is disctinct from the Yale (grad) School of Music)</p>

44

<p>Ok,</p>

<p>D is interested in the double degree. So could she possibly get 10k need aid
(Bassdad I looked at chart) and 10k music major and 10k other major?</p>

45

<p>That seems unrealistically high for the merit aid.</p>

46

<p>As mamenyu said, it is not too likely that she would get both the Dean's Scholarship and the John F. Oberlin Scholarship at full value. It is very possible to get one or the other plus some pretty good need-based aid. You really need to fill out all the paperwork to see if they will offer need-based aid. Do not assume that you will be denied need-based aid on the basis of current income alone, unless that current income is well in excess of $100K per year. Also realize that the amount of aid can increase dramatically in years that you have more than one kid in college. If you are going to have a situation where you do have a second kid starting in a year or two, you should file the FAFSA and, if needed, the Profile for the first child into college, even if you are sure that you are not going to get aid until the second one is in college. It keeps your options open later on.</p>

47

<p>Thanks BassDad</p>

<p>D is going to try for the NFAA competition among other scholarships
Do you know if Oberlin reduces aid if D has outside scholarships?</p>

48

<p>They will not reduce merit aid, but may indeed reduce need-based aid if the outside scholarship amounts to very much. This is a catch-22 that you will find at a lot of places. Normally, they will reduce the loans and work-study before reducing the grants, however, so it is still a good thing to collect those outside scholarships. Be aware that many outside scholarships are one-shot deals and will only apply to the first year in school.</p>

49

<p>At UMichigan we were told that students with the combination of excellence on their instruments and academic excellence would be considered for additional merit scholarships (I believe she said there were five such scholarships), and some of these are in excess of $10K.</p>

50

<p>Team_mom- Thank you for an excellent post. The point of arranging a lesson around a studio class is fantastic. It gives a far greater perspective of the teacher's approach than a single lesson. Welcome and keep em coming.</p>

<p>neumes- I'll chime in and agree that the AP theory from a knowledge standpoint will serve better than the AP science. The only offset would be if your S is already well versed in theory, or science is a passion.</p>

51

<p>Thanks violadad et al. Son is worried about taking a non-honors/AP course because it isn't weighted. As I pointed out to him today, he's been making straight, solid B's in AP & honors science courses. So he could get a B--or lower--in APES (environmental science), spend more time in class in labs, or do the old fashioned thing and get an A in German or Italian. Same thing! I'm sure colleges are not fooled by weighted GPAs.</p>

52

<p>Colleges routinely recalculate gpa based on their own weighing formulas. High school ranking is another matter, but many schools do not rank.</p>

53

<p>Singermom1,</p>

<p>Have you determined your direction? Not that you have to know, but it certainly helps if you and your child has some idea.</p>

<p>It seems to me there are 4 routes:
conservatory (alone or in a college setting)
music major in a college
double degree in a college
music minor in a college </p>

<p>As it has been said before, at the conservatories people eat, breathe, drink, discuss and live for music. In a college setting, such as Rice has, they do take outside courses and live with the student body at large, but they pretty much have no life outside of music (but these are the people that don't want a life outside of music!)</p>

<p>My experience with music majors is that they are the same, but they may have the opportunity for some other aspects of life in addition to music. In double degree programs, such as Oberlin has, the students want to study music, but also want to study other things.</p>

<p>To be a music minor in a college is the only one of these routes that Yale offers. My conductor friend tells me he took almost no music courses at Yale as an undergraduate, just participated in conducting and orchestras in New Haven through Yale. Anyone who wants to persue a music career will be studying intensely at a conservatory after college.</p>

<p>Just to confuse the matter, there is also the difference between colleges and universities. Oberlin College only has undergrads inthe music department, at Rice, more than half of the conservatory is grad students; they play and sing side-by-side.</p>

<p>So here's another school I've not heard discussed here ...Rice. They were rated one of the 5 best values of all schools around from Kiplinger (that applies to Shepherd as well) with one of the lowest private school tuitions and a high rate of aid. Lots of need-based and merit-based scholarships are readily available. I don't think you can get a full-ride on merit only, but perhaps on a combination of the two.</p>

<p>I found Rice to be an unusual school, sort of an inside secret. Everyone knows Juilliard, Curtis, NEC, Oberlin, but only music people seem to know about Shepherd. The conservatory is very selective, I understand they only took about 10 undergrad vocal students this year (freshmen & transfers) The school requirements are pretty tough too, SATs of 660s-700s are pretty standard. YOUR CHILD MUST BE ACCEPTED AT BOTH TO ATTEND THE CONSERVATORY.</p>

<p>I can't tell you much else about the vocal performance. Perhaps someone else could shed more light on that.</p>

54

<p>Almost forgot to respond to the NFAA comment-</p>

<p>DO IT!</p>

<p>In addition to the money, don't forget the value of the NFAA recognition. As an NFAA recipient, my D received letters of recognition from some of the schools she had applied for, and certainly many offers (including scholarship money) from schools she hadn't applied to.</p>

<p>For those who want to know more about NFAA - this summer, the Oscar nominated film, "Rehearsing a Dream," about the NFAA winners in 2006, will be on HBO. (My D and all her friends are in it. Probably, some of your kids too!)</p>

55

<p>For the sake of completeness, I would add one more route to team_mom's list: privately trained. These are folks who either did not go to college at all or who went to college and did not even have a minor in music, yet still found their way into the music business. I am not recommending this path to anyone, rather pointing out that there are many superb musicians who have never studied music in a college or conservatory.</p>

56

<p>Thinking ahead--does anyone know a student or graduate in the Yale Institute of Sacred Music, specifically the Early Music, Oratorio and Chamber Ensemble track? I know it's a grad program and incredibly exclusive, but it's a gleam in the eye of S. I'd love to know what the current students studied as undergraduates. I'll look into it on the website but if anyone has direct experience, we are all ears!</p>

57

<p>Thanks for the great post, team_mom.
Just a word of caution about Rice-Shepherd. Many of the instrumental teachers at Shepherd do not want their students to do a double degree, so it will be good to discuss this in advance. Doing a double degree is hard enough without adding the opposition of the primary teacher to the mix!</p>

58

<p>Commenting on several posts.</p>

<p>team_mom - I would add an a) and b) to "music major in a college". And that is a) music performance major and b) BA in music. I suppose there could be a c) BFA - but I don't know anything about this degree. </p>

<p>The difference between BM (performance) and BA varies among schools, and is worth looking carefully at. My D is probably going to be a BM at Miami-Ohio, because their BA degree doesn't even require private lessons. Obviously, Miami-Ohio is not one of your higher-rated music programs, so a BM from there is not going to be equivalent to the BM her brother gets at Juilliard. Among the general public, I'm not sure how much this will matter. Since D doesn't really want to be a performer, it doesn't matter to us. We have decided the BM is as good a degree as anything for a student who is yet undecided about what she wants to be when she grows up!</p>

<p>I'm curious as to how it will all fall out over the next 4 years. I can imagine several scenarios.
1. She changes her major to a minor after a couple years (thereby losing her scholarship) and majors in something else.
2. She double majors (most likely).
3. She gets an inflated idea of her ability, from being a big fish in a small pond. I hope this doesn't happen, and kinda doubt it will. She has enough contact with people who are honest!
4. She burns out on music, from having to do it more intensely than she wants, while knowing she isn't of the top echelon. This is my fear.</p>

<p>Of course there's a 5 - that she matures as a musician, and comes out stoked.</p>

<p>If she had gone to Furman, they use their BA degree much like other schools use the minor. She would have been a BA there, and a double major. We would have preferred this (but too expensive.) By the way, neumes, Furman has a degree in sacred music, too. (undergrad.)</p>

<p>In general, it is much easier to double major if you get the BA, rather than the BM. Depending upon the school's individual program, and what the student wants to do with the degree, the BA is a viable alternative.</p>

<p>Concerning Rice - Mom of Wild Child's daughter is graduating from Rice (voice, I believe) this year and has had a wonderful experience. Look up her posts on this. Rice was on my S's radar initially, but he didn't have time to take the required SAT IIs. It is back on his short list for grad school. They are reported to be a "good value" so I assume this means they give good scholarships. S has a classmate who will be there next year for grad school as a fellow, I believe.</p>

59

<p>NYCM is absolutely correct. As far as instrumental musicians are concerned, the science labs are only offered at the same time as orchestra rehearsal. I know this because my D (instrumental performance major at Rice) was interested in taking organic chem, but was told that all the labs was required and all labs conflict with rehearsals. Musies (as they are called) are required to take classes in the school, but few instrumentalists, if any, double major.</p>

<p>That doesn't seem to apply to voice, however. I don't know any numbers, but I've attached a link to the Rice web-site, where a voice major discusses her teacher and her double degree progam.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ruf.rice.edu/%7Emusi/students/audrey_walstrom.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~musi/students/audrey_walstrom.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

60

<p>The Performance Certificate program at Yale is tiny, and very strange. 2 (two) people were awarded a Certificate last year, and that is not an unusual number. You don't end up with a BA from Yale; one of the two is currently working towards getting a BA from SCSU (a State of Connecticut regional university in the neighborhood of Yale). Basically, people in the Certificate program are more or less prodigies of interest to a Yale School of Music faculty member. (Nothing wrong with that, just not the typical situation of a high-school musician looking to continue their musical education at college or conservatory.) If you quit high-school and home-schooled in order to be able to play your instrument 5-6 hours/day, and have won some significant competition attention, etc. you might be a candidate for this program.</p>