I agree with warbrain this is what I heard from my CS son - office hours are more like group tutorial and not for individual questions. So yes, I would agree that in this case the language should be English.
@sculptordad To be clear it was not private tutoring. Then I would not object. It was the TA’s official office hours.
I also agree with you, if there are private 1 on 1 meetings with students where they go in one at a time with the door closed for private discussions. Then any language should be fine. That was not case either. It was a small group and the door was opened.
@Ohiomomof2 “I can’t imagine a more imposing scene than a bunch of men in a male-dominated major speaking a language common to them and not including me. I’d find that very intimidating, personally.”
Then they say they have no idea why the female percent of CS grads is 18% nationally. I mean would they have made a 6’6’ 300 lb lineman sit outside for 2 hours? I doubt it.
Also, to be clear, I was only suggesting she raise the “woman card” except as a defense, if needed.
Also, they don’t know her, and I wonder whether they may not want to include her because they think she can’t keep up because she is a White female and does not fit the CS stereotype at all. (Purely speculating on my part now). In reality she is one of the most broadly accomplished CS students in the program. However, being a female she keeps that a secret, and does not discuss her accomplishments. Nevertheless, in all probability more accomplished than even the TA.
As a parent, I find this frustrating.
Having known many of these TA’s (whose first language is not English) I would give them the benefit of the doubt on that. They are just clueless guys who are more comfortable with their native language and naturally resort to it when possible. (I’m studying French right now, so I know how easy it is to lapse into English rather than struggling with the French.)
Your D, however, has to speak up and make it clear that the TA is there for the ENTIRE class and has to accommodate all of the students as best he can. That means speaking English when there are ANY students present at his office hours who do not speak Hindi (or Mandarin, as the case may be). Where I teach, I don’t have TA’s, but if I did, I would definitely want to know about a problem like this. And believe me, I would put a stop to it pronto.
As I said, they can do anything they want on their own time, but in their paid office hours they will assist ALL students IN ENGLISH.
@sylvan8798, They assist one or a small group of students at a time during their office hours, in the best way to assist that student. They don’t assist all students simultaneously. Their responsibility during office hour is one who they are serving at the moment, and not the others who are waiting in the hallway.
Would be upset if a TA has too small voice so you can’t eavesdrop from the hallway even if they speak English during their private meetings?
Why don’t we broadcast school counselling room since the counselors are paid so other students should be able to learn from each other’s dealing their emotional problems? And don’t forget to enforce them to only speak English.
When did the eavesdropping become a given right that you can demand other people to make it easier for you to do that? Why should a student who waited and got his turn care about how well other students in the hallway overhearing his own session?
For God’s sake, we are talking about not in-class speaking but a private meeting between agreed parties. And you want to enforce them to speak only English so you can eavesdrop better for your benefit.
When I was a chem. TA I held my office hours in a conference room with a table that sat about 6. I worked out problems that students brought in on the white board. Any student there could ask questions about what I was doing. Conducting this in a language one of the students couldn’t understand would be unprofessional
@SculptorDad
“They assist one or a small group of students at a time during their office hours, in the best way to assist that student. They don’t assist all students simultaneously. Their responsibility during office hour is one who they are serving at the moment, and not the others who are waiting in the hallway.”
I ask that you consider not all courses and/or Universities operate the same way. I teach a 500-student course. My ‘office hours’ (and the office hours for my TAs) are held in a conference room that seats up to 40 people, and it is usually half-full. It is essentially re-teaching the difficult parts of the lectures in a more intimate and interactive format.
If this is how the OP D’s course is set-up, the student should send a polite email to the TA and cc to the Prof.
“I am getting confused. You want to demand the TA and other student to speak only English in their after-class private tutoring meetings so you can overhear and learn from it. And this is not supposed to be a joke?”
It seems like you are confused because you don’t understand that with most engineering/math/CS classes office hours are NOT “private tutoring meetings”. They are designed for many student to ask questions and for all there to listen to answers. Got it now?
Add chemistry and physics to that format as well
In all of my experiences as an undergrad, grad student, TA, and professor, office hours were open to all comers. They were/are not “private” meetings, although many times it works out that way if only one student arrives. If I were in a situation where there were multiple students present and one of them needed to speak privately, I would make some other arrangement. But then, I don’t speak Hindi.
Thank you everyone for your perspective. I appreciate the feedback and insight. I will encourage her to assert herself if it happens again. The email is a good option too.
I’m an adjunct professor. Hard to see how this has any benefit to me.
When I was a TA, I typically had a group of undergrad students in my office asking similar questions about the week’s material or about the upcoming exam. If only one student showed up, then obviously the conversation would be one on one.
@Much2learn - just a note. India has over 23 official languages. Many of the CS professionals are not native Hindii speakers but are native Telugu, Tamil, or other language speakers. I just wanted to say that before she complains about them speaking “Hindi” she should be VERY sure that is the language they were speaking. Just because they are Indian it by no means indicates they were speaking “Hindi.” Better she go with a generic term than be wrong I think.
I agree that it’s best she just mention they were speaking in a language other than English, which she couldn’t understand or benefit from. It can be difficult to know what language another speaks if you aren’t familiar with that language.
I am sorry that it seems I clearly didn’t know what was going on. I have been a bit sensitive on minority issues these days
I think she is overthinking it. Students and TA were, probably, just carried away by the conversation. I think most foreigners are less sensitive to tolerance / intolerance than Americans (in a good sense of it).
I would say to TA, “Sorry to interrupt, I see that you have a great conversation here. May I participate? If not, could I schedule another time with you for my office hours?” I don’t understand how such request may offend anyone. I, personally, would not go to complain to the department head. Unless she really wants to complain.
< I mean would they have made a 6’6’ 300 lb lineman sit outside for 2 hours? I doubt it.>
Actually, why not? There are more girls in CS than 6’6’ 300 lb linemans. I would rather expect a girl at my office hours than a lineman.
< Thank you everyone for your perspective. I appreciate the feedback and insight. I will encourage her to assert herself if it happens again. The email is a good option too. >
Please, don’ do it over email. It makes everything very official. Don’t suspect ill intent, it could be a simple misunderstanding.
I agree with californiaaa, first try just being nice, but assertive. “Hey, I’m sorry, but the only foreign language I speak is Latin, so would it be possible to conduct the office hours in English? Thanks.” Nerdy boys can be clueless, so there is probably no ill intent here.