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<p>What state are you in? Because I need to avoid it.</p>
<p>My BA was in Liberal Arts. Years later I decided to become a high school English teacher. I studied hard for the English content area exam and I passed with flying colors. Now I am nearly done with a Masters degree in Secondary Education. In your state, I would not be able to teach English, which I think is a shame because I know I’m going to be a great English teacher.</p>
<p>PMK, in most places, if have taken certain classes, there is an alternate certification path. There are certain classes you have to have taken in order to teach that subject, whether you were a major or not. What you can’t do is have only education classes and random classes that don’t relate to the subject matter that is being taught. In your liberal arts major, you probably had some English classes. Maybe some writing ones, as well? If need be, the prospective teacher can take the missing classes later on.</p>
<p>Pug…it sounds like initially you were in an alternate route to certification. We have those here too. </p>
<p>I’m in CT. Every person currently in a program to become a teacher must major in some content area. You say your major was “liberal arts”? Did you NOT have a specific major?</p>
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<p>Perhaps those are the places you are familiar with. Let’s assume that such is the case in New York, and let assume that the teachers actually have an advanced degree in the content matter they teach and they never are assigned a class in which they hold no such degree. And let’s assume that the occasional substitute possess the same degree. </p>
<p>I think that there are plenty of states in that “anywhere” were such requirements are wishful thinking. </p>
<p>A few weeks ago I posted about the number of MATH teachers who never took or passed a Calculus class and the number who pass two Algebra classes. That number was far from 100 percent. </p>
<p>On a last note, if the teachers really had Master’s degrees in the subject they teach, they should have a lot fewer problems passing the mandatory competency tests. In Texas, just to name one state, that has become a source of much concern.</p>
<p>PS The issue of the degree in itself is NOT that relevant, as degrees come in all flavors and shapes. The real issue is that plenty of those degrees are obtained from mediocre schools that specialize in “getting” the paperwork processed. The biggest issue is to transform the industry into one where the BEST of our students will work, and be respected for their knowledge. To accomplish this, we need to abandon the current common denominator of mediocrity.</p>
<p>^ Just last Tuesday, someone was complaining about having to write a 5-7 page paper.</p>
<p>Beach lover…please explain your point. So what if someone complains about writing a paper? That happened in my DD’s fairly competitive engineering program too. There are slackers in EVERY field of study. You are making it sound like this is unique to education.</p>
<p>If you are unhappy, find another field of study, or transfer to a different school, or double major. Lots of options besides pointing the finger at others.</p>
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<p>The problem is that we all know teachers who work extremely hard, and easily exceed the minimum requirements established by their CBA - Collective Bargaining Agreement. This does not mean, however, that they are plenty of do not adhere to the same principles, and are perennials absentees. If that was not the case, we would hardly need the number of substitutes teachers. Check the statistics of Chicago about this number.</p>
<p>But again, that will not change anytime soon. Our education system will continue to be based on a society that no longer exists, and we will cling to the norm of an agrarian society that requires summers of vacation to attend the fields! It is what is, and it will NOT change. This said, there are no reasons why teachers should have their work schedules mimic the attendance of the students. It would be to the interest of teachers to have their profession becoming a professional model based on 48 to 50 weeks, with salaries, expecations similar to all other sectors. It would go a long way to stop the moronic discussions about the work hours and months. In addition, one requirement should be that all work and studies be accomplished … at the school! Kids should study at the school and teachers should be there to assist. No extended homework. No grading at night. Everyone should have a family life. And there are few reasons why a school year should not be 4 quarters of 11 to 12 weeks. </p>
<p>Last but not least. How many teachers do you know who have problems scheduling their … holidays?</p>
<p>Xiggi, my D went to school in PA before coming to NY, where she did her master’s. She also looked at schools in quite a few states (although in the northern part of the US, so I won’t speak to the south or west) and I didn’t find a single place where a person could teach adolescent/secondary education without a degree in the content. I wonder which states allow that? Does anyone know?</p>
<p>beachlover, it really seems that you are uncomfortable with being lumped in with other teacher candidates because you aren’t proud of your career choice. If that’s the case, maybe another choice would make you feel better about yourself. The thing is that you can’t know what the person’s situation is. Maybe they are working full-time, maybe they have a baby at home, maybe their mother is terminally ill, maybe they are chronic complainers. What other people do, say, complain about is not relevant to you because that little slice tells you nothing. My D2 is in a very competitive program. She has a classmate who is gorgeous, blond, tall, and seems like a space cadet. It comes as a major shock to all who first meet her that her GPA is above 3.9 in a hard science major and her GREs were through the roof. You just can’t assume that you know how smart or accomplished anyone is other than yourself.</p>
<p>*Beach lover…please explain your point. So what if someone complains about writing a paper? *</p>
<p>;)
I complain about having to cook dinner everyday. Didn’t they just eat yesterday?</p>
<p>A 5-7 page paper also seems an awkward length. Not long enough for much detail, but longer than an overview.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, I do not doubt for a second that you know the issues that relate to your daughter back and forth. I do not agree with you about what is needed in NY and other northern states. I just picked on the “anywhere” because that seems to be different in Texas, for instance.</p>
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Well that’s why I asked. You raised a point and I am genuinely curious, so I am hoping there are people who have some information. I’m going to look into it myself, but I guarantee that I won’t hit all 50 states. I am going to engage in some stereotyping of my own and check out Mississippi’s requirements.</p>
<p>Ok, so Mississippi has a BA Ed. in English Education. It requires 3 education classes and 36 hours of English content, mostly at the higher level, as well as the core courses which include 6 credits of literature, 6 of writing, 6 of history, 6 credits of upper level math and science, as well as various other things like psychology or political science.</p>
<p>The science programs are different than here in that here it is a major in whatever branch of science with a few education classes tacked on. In Mississippi, it seems a focus on science education with 50 credits in biology and related subjects. But still very content heavy. The elementary ed program is very broad and less content-specific. However, the threshold for testing out of the Praxis I is very low.</p>
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<p>The challenge is that many teachers take the mandatory competency test for initial certification, before receiving their masters degree. In NYS they have to pass 3 exams before applying for initial certification; LAST, ATS-W and the CST. Yes, there are students who graduate from teaching programs and don’t pass one of the test. As a result they cannot work because they will not be certified. I remember that you could get a sub license with just a bachelors degree. Now, because there is a freeze in NYC on sub licenses, you now have to be sponsored by a principal in order to get a sub license making them harder to get.</p>
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<p>OMG, that is not what I meant to say. I really need to stop my phone to dictate! Sorry for that. What I really meant was “I do not argue with you about what is needed in NY and other northern states.” </p>
<p>I hope the rest of the post was clear about that, and I am sorry that it came out very differently than I meant. It is obvious that I would not be arguing with you or Sybbie about what is needed in New York.</p>
<p>Or with me about CT, right:)</p>
<p>Xiggi, I took it as you intended, no worries! But I was curious as to the point you raised about differences by state. It is very interesting to me to see how different the requirements are. (Yes, I know, get a life old lady!).</p>
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<p>This post reminded me of a NYT article a decade or so ago about a Harvard College and M.Ed/AM in Regional Studies-East Asian Studies* graduate who had a hard time getting hired by the NYC public school system to teach history because her undergrad/grad degrees stated her major was in East Asian Studies, not history even though that was her concentration and her coursework fulfilled all the requirements for a history concentration/major at Harvard. </p>
<p>Found that to be of interest as I knew several Columbia College/GSAS graduates who could have faced similar difficulties had they decided to go into teaching for history or social science…even though their coursework requirements were nearly identical to the ones for the major in the history department at the BA/MA* level. </p>
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<li>At the time and as far as I know, neither college offers a terminal History masters. Any masters degrees taken were earned in the process of going for the PhD or offered as a “consolation prize” to grad students who opted to leave or were kicked out of the program after passing the oral/written exam stage because their advisor/department didn’t feel they were suitable or “serious enough” to continue in the program.</li>
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<p>Teacher certification requirements have changed dramatically in the last decade, Cobrat.</p>
<p>10 years ago there was a major shortage of teachers in NYC, that anyone who wanted a job could have gotten one. My sister graduated from Columbia with a masters in American Studies. </p>
<p>However, when she career changed to became a teacher, she had she still need additional courses in order to be certified to teach english or social studies, even though she breezed through all of the state exams. </p>
<p>She took teaching courses at Queens College for her certification (which also counted toward her 30 credits over her masters) along with 2 additional courses in English and Global history to get certified in both English and Social studies. </p>
<p>Later on she also became certified to teach special education, but decided not to pursue a job on the Special ed line, because she did not want to start the process all over again and she would lose her seniority as a social studies teacher. She teaches one Sped Ed class and does Sped Ed coverages.</p>