<p>Daughter reported an interesting conversation in her honors English class last week. Her teacher told the class that they should be starting to think about teacher recommendations now (they are juniors). The teacher said she has been to several workshops on how to write college recommendations and wanted the kids to know some important points to consider in choosing teachers for recommendations. Some of this might be "old hat" to some here, but my daughter and I found it interesting.</p>
<p>First, the teacher said it is a good idea to ask the potential recommendation writer up front if there are any issues that would prevent them from writing a good recommendation. She said most teachers (at least at this school) will be honest if they have any hesitations about writing a recommendation. She said if a teacher says something to the effect that "OK, I will write this for you but I will be honest" take that at true value. She gave the kids an example of a student who had a 4.0 average overall and one of the few A's in her honors English class - the student asked her for a recommendation and she said "I will give you the recommendation but I want you to know I will be honest." In the recommendation, she mentioned the students excellent grades (he was one of the top ranked students in the school) but also mentioned that he didn't do well on group projects/discussions, didn't seem particularly social with other students, and didn't participate in extra curriculars. </p>
<p>Therefore, her next point was that you do not always have to get your recommendations from the teachers who have given you the best grades. In fact, she said in some cases it might be better to get a recommendation from a teacher in whose class you worked hard but didn't get the most stellar grade. She told the kids that one thing colleges like to hear about is how students deal with setbacks and disappointments. She said she has given excellent recommendations to students who didn't get straight "A's" in her class but B"s, C's and even a few D's. She said the reason she wrote excellent recommendations for these students is because when they received a bad grade, they didn't give up or come to her and beg her to change the grade - instead, they doubled their efforts and came to her for help and suggestions on how to improve. She gave the example of a student who had received a "B" in her class after working very hard all year - the student applied to the same selective college as another student in her class who had easily pulled an A. She wrote both recommendations. But in the recommendation for the first student, she talked about all of the effort she had put in, how she had grown during the year, and her determination to LEARN, not just get a good grade. Apparently, the first student was accepted, the second rejected.</p>
<p>She also said that she really appreciates it when kids give her a short one page summary describing their most important extracurriculars and interests. She made it clear she doesn't want a LIST of extracurriculars and interests, but a few short paragraphs that describe why the ec or interest is important and how they have contributed to the ec or developed an interest. She said in the recommendation writing workshops, the adcoms said that they want to hear details, not lists. They want the person to "come alive" in the recommendation.</p>
<p>Anyhow, I thought this was very interesting. Based on some of these comments, my daughter is thinking about who she will ask to write her recommendations and coming up with some different answers than just the teachers she considers "friends."</p>
<p>I actually had an amazing English teacher last year who has a wonderful system. We meet with him at the beginning of the year and give him a resume or whatever else we have. Then we sit down, discuss what schools we are applying to, what kind of grades we get, what we want to pursue, etc. I think my English teacher knows more about my future plans than my guidance counselor! He also asks us if we would like him to tailor any recommendations specifically to the school. For example, on my Georgetown application he wrote a few sentences on how I often used politics as a source of my writing, and how I specifically discussed regional politics in discussing the cultures of the authors for my IB papers. He just makes you feel really confident that the reader will be "wow-ed"</p>
<p>My other teacher basically wrote a recommendation, then we sat down and talked about it. I asked her to mention that I have been recognized by various awards, etc. She also did a GREAT job with anecdotes, mentioning for example how I gave one student a dollar each time he came to class (this kid was failing and didn't study at all) He ended up getting a 3, and called me up to tell me! She talked about that to discuss my sensitivity to others.</p>
<p>I think the most important thing is to not try to get the best recommendation based on grades. Instead find a teacher you really like, and go from there. They will turn out best!</p>
<p>That is very helpful. Thanks for sharing! I'm thinking that your D's AP-Euro teacher is in a position to write a superb rec for your D. All the sweeter since your D got a 5 on the exam!</p>
<p>Icalpo - thanks, you just reminded me of something else the teacher recommended - she said that it is helpful if you can attach a brochure or some information about the college she is writing the recommendation for, especially if it is not a school that is one of the "typical" schools students from this high school apply to. She said that helps her slant the recommendation to the school.</p>
<p>Marite, yes, her AP Euro teacher has already offered to write her a recommendation -- unfortunately, D may not be able to fit another class in with her so she'll only be a "10th grade" teacher. I do think that her guidance counselor will write her a nice recommendation - they have become quite close in trying to put together the peer counseling program and she also was impressed how D. handled all of the stress in her life last year.</p>
<p>The fact that the teacher was a 10th grade teacher is not important, since your D took an AP course with her. My S has had to ask a teacher whose class he audited in 8th grade because two schools absolutely demanded that the rec writers be high school teachers! His college teacher could write a rec, but it would be supplemental material. The other rec is coming from a teacher who taught my S in 9th and 10th grades, and not even at AP level. His 11th grade teachers don't know him well enough to write persuasive letters, at least not yet.</p>
<p>We casually mentioned to the guidance counselor that our assumption was that the English and humanities teachers would probably write better recommendations than the math/science teachers. He agreed! I KNOW this is a stereotype, and will get some flack, but it was based on personalities in our school. I saw some previous recommendations from the math teachers, and they were short, hand-written and concise (although still good ones). I assumed the English / Humanities teachers would take a little more time. So, my son asked for some from both. It was also our hope to show that he was respected by teachers across the board in a variety of subject types.</p>
<p>This post is invaluable! It really is the exact opposite of what we would expect to suggest to our children. My D did not pick the teacher that gave her the best grade, but the teacher who best knew her passion for the sciences.</p>
<p>Don't assume that science teachers won't write great recommendations. My son needed a recommendation from his middle school science teacher to get into the AP Bio track in high school. He knew my son well but wasn't sure what he should say in the recommendation. After talking with my son, he wrote a beautiful recommendation that was very personal and really portrayed my son's personality. So, I wouldn't rule out science teachers for recommendations (now MATH teachers...well, that's another thing. Just kidding!!)</p>
<p>One other thing that I know we've mentioned here in the past but that the teacher mentioned to my daughter's class: send a thank you note after the recommendation is sent but MORE IMPORTANTLY let the teacher know how things turn out for you. She said it's a wonderful feeling to get a handwritten note from a student thanking you for helping them get accepted into a specific college.</p>
<p>Thanks Carolyn, and others. This is a timely subject for us. My son is collecting some letters now (and teachers are giving him copies of the letters). His first was so good that I'm worried that it will be discounted by admissions people (his teacher was a former professor at a prestigeous school and compares S with "the best he has ever seen," even as a college professor). So that's one worry. The other worry is that the one other letter he has received is very blah. Yes, it says he's a great kid, etc, etc, but it just seems to be a formula letter that could generically apply to any other student that requested a letter. What's frustrating about it is that the same person who wrote this letter is the same one who wrote a dynamite recommendation letter for my son for the potential gap year project he's applying for. Question: would it be right to go back to this person and ask him to redo the college application letter "more like the project recommendation letter?" Except for specific references to the project, it COULD be used for a college app as well. What to do? I have a feeling that this person might be offended if we implied that the college letter was weak compared to the project recommendation.</p>
<p>Is it common to see one's letters? My son's went straight to the counseling office. I did hear, when I mentioned that he felt a little lukewarm about his essay, that the essay was a good complement to the recs.</p>
<p>Most colleges prefer that the applicant waive the right to see the recommendations.
I remember reading once on this forum that adcoms don't like it when the waiver box is not checked. Would they look at the application in a different light?</p>
<p>I don't remember if my S waived his right or not; but he certainly does not know what the GC or teachers wrote. They did not discuss the rec with him nor showed it to him.</p>
<p>Just because you check the waiver box, you aren't saying that you can't see it -</p>
<p>You are simply agreeing that should you be accepted, you will not have any access to it.</p>
<p>I never really saw it as a moral crisis, I think its a nice gesture to allow a student to see a glowing recommendation...definately boosted my self-confidence.</p>
<p>Not true, Ilcapo. The waiver box means that you do not get to see it before of after you are accepted. There's no sense barring someone from seeing a recommendation after s/he has seen it, is there?</p>
<p>The point of having an applicant sign a waiver--i.e., agreeing not to read the recommendation, is that the recommender can give an honest opinion, free from fear of hurting the applicant's feelings or worse, getting sued by said applicant. Reading the rec may have boosted your self-confidence, but if the adcom know that you had access to it, ask yourself, how much store will they put by it, and what is more important: a boost to your self-confidence or the adcom's confidence in the accuracy of the rec?</p>
<p>Digmedia - I think if the teacher is approached the right way, it might be OK to ask if he could buff up the weak letter. I'd give a copy of the original rec to him for comparison and be very, very polite. It might be that he is just busy with letters for lots of kids at this time. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?</p>
<p>The waiver means that you waive your rights to see the letter. Some teachers interpret that as meaning the onus is on the students, not themselves, and therefore they can show the letter to the student if they wish, but that is really not how things should be handled. If the adcoms knew that teachers shared recs with the students, they would treat them with a huge grain of salt-- and probably do. It makes things harder for students who genuinely do not have access to their recs. </p>
<p>Admission decisions are like hiring decisions. They need to be confidential.</p>
<p>Carolyn is right, the student never really knows which teacher will give a great recommendation. At our HS all teacher recs are submitted directly to the Guidance Counselor who keeps the original in the students application file. My son and most of his classmates asked for 3 teacher recommendations and the GC recommends which ones to send in with each application. </p>
<p>Junior year our son had the same teacher for AP Statistics and AP CompSci. He was a rather odd person and few students asked him for recommendations. My son got 5's on both AP tests and that summer got a very nicely written note from this teacher. Because of that he asked him for a recommendation and his GC told him that it was one that he would recommend sending to all the colleges he was applying to.</p>
<p>Our son also gave each teacher a brief list of all school and outside EC's because few teachers know all that most their students are involved in.</p>