<p>At 1.96 standard deviations above the mean, you’re in the top 2%. As you approach 4 standard deviations above the mean (the maximum tested in modern IQ tests) you find yourself in the top 2-5% of that top 2% subgroup. Effectively, the highly gifted are as far above the gifted as the gifted are above the norm.</p>
<p>I raised two highly-gifted sons and, in my experience, gifted and magnet programs are the least flexible programs out there. Teachers and administrators there are confused that you aren’t infinitely grateful just for being allowed in; they simply cannot comprehend that the baseline program is not enough without further acceleration or accommodations.</p>
<p>“they simply cannot comprehend that the baseline program is not enough without further acceleration or accommodations.”</p>
<p>I would certainly agree. When my son was in a pull-out program in elementary school, his gifted consultant complained that he was “making the other kids feel bad” because he would finish the projects ahead of them, say they were easy, and ask for something else to do. She was annoyed that he was with the other gifted kids and still needed more.</p>
<p>That sounds odd to me but I know different programs are different. My school is small so it tries hard to accommodate everything everyone could need. We have a student who is currently a “supersenior” because he skipped a grade within the program. He’d already skipped 2 grades in elementary school. So he’s 15 or 16 and currently taking biology with the sophomores and two online classes. He also has a medical problem that the program goes to any length possible to accommodate. The school really goes to any length possible to help us. The teachers want so badly to help us it’s amazing sometimes.</p>
<p>Sometimes small is better. We live in a large urban area. While we were eventually able to find schools to accommodate our kids’ needs, it wasn’t the most “elite” ones in regard to qualifying test scores, but rather other top-10 choices, where the teachers and administrators were still top-notch and dedicated to their jobs. In my estimation, these were the real heros, educators who tried to offer every opportunity to the “leftovers” from a cherry-picked list.</p>
<p>My current school is like this, too. There are only about 1100 kids from k-12, so the graduating class is ~75-ish kids. Usually, many students leave this school to go to better named high schools, however, since ours has only be in function since 2006.</p>
<p>Those high schools have good IB programs and I guess students are sufficiently challenged by them. I didn’t go there because they seemed pretty inflexible about giving me credit for courses I’d already taken.</p>
<p>I get that there’s a giftedness spectrum but always end up confused as to where I actually fall. On tests, my verbal and quantitative is great, but my spatial is pretty subpar. I remember for the day I took the test, I thought we only had 25 minutes for the whole booklet, so I ended up doing most of the Reading booklet then itself. </p>
<p>@ The programs being for kids from affluent areas. I think there might be some truth to people being smarter there, but my area was quite affluent and not that many people actually were in the programs. I guess the school did a good job screening people? Sometimes there are more gifted kids than you would normally think, just by accident or whatnot.</p>
<p>I go to an academic year Virginia Governor’s School that operates as a school within a school format servicing rural counties. The cost per slot was $4500 a year last I checked and is paid by the state and school board together (each county pays a different percentage). There are 18 total academic year Governor’s Schools in the state. Two (Maggie Walker and Thomas Jefferson) are actually 4 year high schools rather than schools within a school. Each one has a specialty so it may not be the best for some students who end up in ones for subjects they don’t really like but a lot just get over it because of the benefits. Like several of my classmates want to go into theater or the arts. They won’t have to take a single science course if they go to an instate school. For mine, the school systems decide who they send to the program (all still must meet certain program criteria) though I know this is not the same for other schools (TJ students have to apply to the school itself). What really annoys me is simply the fact that these types of schools are not more available in other areas and some are much better than others. My magnet had some serious financial issues a while back where we were having trouble giving the scholarships for required school trips that students couldn’t afford. Yes, we’re better taken care of than most public schools but we’re so small that when we have trouble, everyone feels it. </p>
<p>I honestly want to come back to my magnet and try to teach after getting my Masters. I refuse to teach at my high school but teaching at my magnet would be a dream.</p>
My son’s pre-K teacher gave all the kids some sort of Piaget assessment for reading readiness. She thought it was hilarious that my son was deemed not ready to read because he was too lazy to draw a complete drawing (but he had a great excuse - the person had his back to us - therefore no face). She was the first one to ever mention the G word - on the very first day of school when I got mixed up about times and arrived to pick him up 15 minutes later than I was supposed to. She was great - loved him and really appreciated his differences. Never batted an eye about bringing in Anatomy textbooks for show and tell and would try to “trick” him with big numbers or odd words at circle time when other kids were identifying letters or numbers or colors.</p>
<p>I have to admit while I realized my oldest was smart, I didn’t really get why he had no peers until the results from CTY testing came back and his scores were way, way over on the right side of all those bell curves, that were already limited to the top 10% or so of 7th and 8th graders in the country. Academically schools aren’t, and really can’t be expected to be designed for the outliers, though I think it would be helpful if they’d be more willing to recognize the problem and consider acceleration at least in some subjects to keep the kids happy. We can’t all homeschool.</p>
<p>That wasn’t an issue at my STEM-centered public magnet high school. We not only had AP courses, but also advanced courses…especially in STEM fields which were comparable to undergrad university courses such as number theory which a classmate who’s now a tenure-track math Prof. at an elite public university took as a HS junior. </p>
<p>If that wasn’t enough, there were provisions in place to allow advanced students to take advanced undergrad, private reading/research, or even graduate courses at local area universities like NYU, CUNY, or Columbia. </p>
<p>I don’t know if it is still the case today, but the teachers/admins’ attitudes were not to teach to the LCD. If anything, they tended to be inclined towards teaching to the top 10% of a given class and expecting the rest to keep up or sink. </p>
<p>Other than a minute few families moving out of the city, most classmates who were part of my incoming HS freshman class’ 28% attrition rate in our first two years was mostly because they weren’t able to cope with the sheer quantity/rigor of homework, the lack of handholding(a.k.a. sink or swim), and a school culture tending towards cutthroat academic competition.</p>
<p>One thing I wish people wouldn’t do is try to pit higher students against one another. It’s annoying. Don’t coddle them, but it’s better for us to work together and support each other than to compete. We’re already competitive in nature. Teaching us to be competitive will do what exactly? Make us into a bunch of superfreaks and workaholics? In this society, is that really what we need? Do you know why so many smart students end up on drugs or hurting themselves? The sheer amount of pressure to be perfect. The inability to act like a child. The lack of support. People try to justify it by saying they’ll need it for “real world jobs”. Don’t you need to know cooperation to get through the real world? The a******* who just wants to get ahead in the next cubicle is usually not going as far as the guy who is everybody’s friend provided they work on the same level. The guy with social skills has a better chance at getting ahead. That’s why there is no consistent “revenge of the awkward geeks”. The guy who is going to get ahead is the one who has the personality.</p>
<p>While pitting students against each other isn’t ideal, it does prepare HS classmates for the academic rigor at respectable/elite universities…especially in STEM-oriented fields where intro courses graded on a curve and designed to weed-out underprepared or students unwilling to put in the required effort are commonplace. </p>
<p>My post-college roommate who was a bio major at Tufts in the early '90s recalled that around 60% of his classmates were “weeded out” of continuing as Bio majors or pre-meds because they flunked the class even with the curve. </p>
<p>It’s also well-known that most engineering students who were straight-A type HS students end up receiving a severe shock upon receiving their first Cs, Ds, or even Fs. </p>
<p>I myself had a taste of this from taking 2 intro CS classes for majors and seeing 1/3 or more of my classmates flunk or withdraw. And that was considering those courses weren’t designed with the intention to weed out students.</p>
<p>^ I agree with you and that’s why I hate class rank in competitive schools. You’re already taking a bunch of really smart kids and forcing them to stress nonstop about grades. That one point on that math test, or those 2 MC questions missed in English just because you were tired and misread…</p>
<p>Just, ugh why? My old school didn’t bother ranking because if it did, you would have to go to the third decimal place just to find differences. Everyone wants to do well and I daresay, many of the more successful people (HYPS types) actually eked out “low As” simply because they were busy doing a thousand other things. Class rank, if it needs to exist at all-should be determined by estimation.</p>
<p>Edit: I don’t think you should make people compete against each other; rather, people should compete against themselves to be the absolute best. If a student strives to understand everything fully and develop strategies to address the questions in the manner the teacher wishes, he or she can still do well. </p>
<p>Often competition is a good motivator to go well above and beyond what are often minimal requirements for a project, a challenge, or an assignment. Most people will only compete against those that have a they have a chance of beating occasionally – if they can’t win at least once in 4-5 tries, it’s no longer much fun for the loser or interesting for the winner.</p>
<p>As Cobrat points out, those who are the very best there is in their small pond eventually find themselves grouped with others who are as smart or smarter than they are. Experienced competitors will, more often that not, be able to draw on an inner reserve to try harder when that time comes.</p>
<p>Serenity Jade, I completely, completely agree with you. I’m appalled by the culture of perfection that seems to mark our high schools. In my own experience, far from preparing kids for the academic rigor of respectable/elite colleges, what it actually does is stunt true academic growth. Kids tend to avoid taking academic risks and cluster to classes that add the greatest bump to the gpa. Some retain the spark that propels them to learn and retain that love of learning but so many start life on the treadmill too early. They are afraid of making mistakes which, in my own life, have yielded the greatest freedom and the greatest cognitive and emotional growth. The need to be perfect also brings increased academic dishonesty and too often it forecloses the gift of collaboration. People stop appreciating the intelligence and contributions of those around them. </p>
<p>My own kids may be weird but their motivation really does come from within not from the desire to beat others around them. (Ok, maybe the youngest is more that way but it’s not something I prize and it is something I actively discourage in her.) </p>
<p>As for the small pond thing, what I see is that those who have grown up with support and a strong belief in them from their family, foibles and all, have the inner resiliency to deal with those as smart or smarter than them. This is true even of my competitive youngest kid. My eldest actually liked that situation more than the one where she stood out. For the first time in her life, there were people who could serve as models, who could teach her. But she wasn’t so wrapped up in being “the best” that this seemed in any way a threat.</p>
<p>Just curious about the supposed myth: “wear glasses.” All of the people I know who are verbally gifted read a lot and wear quite thick glasses, or contact lenses. This may not apply to the mathematically gifted, nor to musicians.</p>
<p>This was lumped with being physically and socially inept, in Myth #4. I agree that those are myths. On the other hand, I think the acquisition of social skills does takes a little extra, for someone who is rather different from other children.</p>
<p>“Lake Woebegon. Where all the children are above average.”</p>
<p>There is the view that gifted children are better adjusted than their non-gifted peers. With great intelligence may come greater social intelligence, and resiliency to stress. But, overall, gifted people have the same life issues as others, and a similar range of emotional outcomes. </p>
<p>Some say they make better athletes because they are more coachable, have greater insight into the game, and can compensate for physical shortcomings. My gifted child’s soccer coach said my son always knew where he should be on the field and had the ability to anticipate where the play will go. The NFL administers a test of cognitive abilities, the Wunderlic, to all prospects, and some teams will choose a higher scorer with lower physical attributes over a stud athlete. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Buffalo’s quarterback, is an example of intelligence overcoming not the greatest physical ability. A Harvard grad, he had the second highest Wunderlic in history. QBs have the highest average scores. </p>
<p>One of my pet peeves is the educational bias asymmetry regarding both sides of the bell curve. If you are two or three standard deviations below average, you have all kinds of services thrown at you, but if you are two or three standard deviations above average–not so much. In my state, a gifted child, by statute, is entitled to an evaluation, but not to services. We have had to cobble together a program consisting of private tutors and independent studies in the public school system. We have resisted grade acceleration because our kid likes his age peers, and does well socially. Our goal has been to challenge him academically wherever he is. Just putting your kid a grade or two ahead doesn’t necessarily work. You child may find sixth grade, for example, no more stimulating than fourth grade.</p>
<p>For some weird reason, the ones above average/gifted are not only ignored in terms of those resources, but if my own public middle school experience and college classmates’ high school experienced are any indication…are often grounds used by their HS classmates/parents and sometimes even the teachers/admins to pick on and bully them. </p>
<p>Lost count of how many times I’ve heard from said college classmates found relief upon arriving at our undergrad because in their own words “Unlike in K-12, it’s actually considered cool to be smart in college”. </p>
<p>HS classmates, post college-friends, and colleagues attending elite/respectable colleges also experienced/heard the same from their classmates. </p>
<p>Only exceptions to this were HS classmates who attended what was considered the public college system of last resort in my area back in the '90s because it exhibited the same bias of prioritizing support for remedial students over those of high academic achievers/gifted students*. They ended up voting with their feet and transferring out to respectable/elite colleges after 1-2 years. </p>
<ul>
<li>This is no longer the case as the system has done much to change admissions/institutional priorities to provide much more institutional support for the high achiever/gifted students.</li>
</ul>
<p>I have always found (last 16 years) the ERIC Clearinghouse from the Dept. of Eduation to be a great help in finding solutions to the problems gifted children present. From the information I got I was able find and to navigate through all the opportunities (many) that our school system offered for gifted children. We are lucky to live in one of the biggest school systems in the US so opportunities were plentiful. Test early (you have to know what you are dealing with and you need documentation to ask for services), know your rights, don’t be nasty but be firm.</p>
<p>I guess it’s odd to me to hear people talk about school systems that don’t offer good gifted programs even though I know those places exist. </p>
<p>I know my school system really covets the kids who are ahead because we make them look good. Only 40% of the graduating class goes on to any form of college the year after graduation. Being able to say that we sent a girl to MIT three years ago was a major deal just as it will be major if the Val goes to Columbia. It’s a poor half suburb, half rural county. The sports teams suck. We have nothing other than the people in high academic standing to be proud of. The school prides itself on offering the most DE classes of any school with a program through the local community college and on paying most of the cost (the credits cost over $300 each but students only pay $120 per credit)</p>
<p>My school’s average math SAT score is a 430. The average CR score is a 440 and the average writing is 420. It has a high rate of teen pregnancy and a very high drug problem. Combating this image is difficult and it’s why the school sends to not one but two different magnet schools.</p>
<p>Those of you fortunate to be enrolled in gifted programs, be thankful. Had I known that our small rural school district was incapable and unwilling to teach TAG kids, we never would’ve moved here. It’s been a nightmare.</p>
<p>Our youngest will complete his last year at the local public school and we’ve been counting down the months until he enters a private high school. We’re very fortunate we can afford to send him out of our district. Friends with similarly gifted children have sent their kids to the local high school, which is failing miserably. </p>
<p>“Gifted” is such a loaded term but it’s the best we have at the moment. It’s Oregon statute that TAG (Talented & Gifted) students must be accommodated, but the legislature provides no money. In our state a student must either score in the top 97th percentile on an I.Q. test or consistently perform at the 97% level to receive services, such as they are. </p>
<p>For those parents considering testing, remember that I.Q. tests only accurately capture the intelligence of 95% of the population so other considerations, such as the level of work are important. I also recommend private testing, if you can afford it. It’s far more encompassing than district tests.</p>
<p>I hope the private school meets your needs, but it would be unfair to categorically state that private schools are better on this than public schools. My son’s public high school allowed him to take AP Calculus as a freshman, while the local (very elite) private high school has a firm rule barring AP classes until junior year. This year, sophomore, he is taking four AP classes plus an independent study in calc 3 and linear algebra with a math PhD tutor. When he is a junior, he will be able to take tuition free courses at the local Ivy–due to a partnership with the public school system. This would also be unavailable at the private high school. </p>
<p>To some extent–and I am not at all saying this is your situation–I’ve observed that private schools are places where some kids go who for a wide variety of reasons can’t fit in at public schools. This includes, for instance, learning disabled children, whose parents see private schools as superior for those challenges. That is not always the case. Many private schools are ill equipped to provide for students who don’t fit into their norm, whatever it is.</p>
<p>Not to say that it hasn’t been a struggle to cobble together a challenging program at my son’s schools over the years, but I’ve found the public system to be more flexible and accommodating than what I’ve heard about the privates. </p>
<p>Years ago, we visited the the local private grade school–also elite–and they told us that they had a firm rule about not allowing kids born after January 1 to enter kindergarten. Wise guy me asked: “You mean Mozart [DOB January 27] would have to wait a year?”</p>