It looks like my kids’ well known HS had ‘lesser’ results for high stats students, which are the type of students who will be fine wherever they go. And because they are on average relatively affluent, don’t need to access T20s for their non-academic benefits. I haven’t heard any here say that they feel things were unfair, or that a ‘less’ qualified applicant was accepted instead of them…but maybe there are some that feel that way, similar to here on CC.
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Some of his friends that graduated this year had these outcomes, so he is prepared that this might happen to him. It’s not the end of the world.
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The UCs have competing objectives, one being the awesome goal to propel California students out of poverty and provide opportunity. At the same time, they face inadequate funding and seek to encourage diversity so there are quite a few out of state kids and internationals accepted at top campuses in popular majors. The problem is they are also supposed to educate in state top 9% and unfortunately there isn’t enough room and funding to fit everyone in. Another problem is the top 9% don’t reflect the state population or state’s high school graduate demographics and some at UC would like to see that I believe. Some campuses have physical or political growth limitations and are bursting at the seams. So something has to give. Probably should not be top 9% in state imho.
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I just spent 20 minutes of my life that I will never get back again, trying to reverse engineer the longest ongoing discussion on this thread. Please, if you can’t produce another study or something else from your own personal experience that supports your position, just agree to disagree, and don’t waste everyone’s time venting and throwing whatever you can think of against the wall to see if it stick (and, yes I cop to being guilty of this myself from time to time.)
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You are right that the kids will be ok. Their parents are often paying twice as much though for private school and that’s ok for those who can afford it though the cost of living is a challenge here for most. Also some going to neighboring states when they’d rather be closer to home, especially during a pandemic. Some motivated kids felt like their effort and time didn’t really pay off. So there is some cost to in state families who got shut out of UC.
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My experience is totally anecdotal, but I’m hearing it from people in several different states so I don’t think Georgia is unique. I do think schools that used test optional to increase URM or first generation students like mentioned with the UCs may be seeing this more often. Georgia Tech is often a back up for super high stats kids in state, and I have been told that many of the tip top students at the very top high schools ended up at Tech this year, which would have been a backup in years past. This ended up displacing some very high stats kids at those schools who weren’t quite Ivy caliber that put Tech as their first choice and where Tech was considered a match. Coincidentally, or not, Georgia Tech increased its URM and first generation students by roughly 30% this year. This was a stated goal of their admissions and they succeeded. Obviously admit rates for other demographics went down to afford for these increased admissions.
Unlike a lot of schools, test scores will be required this year at Georgia Tech. Not sure if we will ever know the impact going TO made but this may provide some insight.
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Our HS in MA had about the same results as usual although the mix of T20s was a little different than the year before. Only big difference was number going to UCs – way more than usual (including 4 to UCLA).
When people say T20, T10 or T50, do they loosely mean the top x colleges based on some ranking systems, what rankings?
Typically they mean the US News top 20 or 50 national universities. Other schools that are also seen as elite often include the top 10 national LACs.
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Seems no one is fighting for the unhooked middle-class white/Asian male whose parents did not make an 7-8 figure donation. So glad college admission is over for my guy.
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You are hitting it out of the park with some of your links. Nice work.
On a separate note, the amount of literature my S got exploded in the last two months after his first SAT score was released. I know that College Board sells the score ranges and I am fine with it, but it is interesting how many T50 schools are suddenly sending him unsolicited literature based on an SAT score when they are all officially TO.
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I once had a conversation (about 10 years ago) with an AO from U of Chicago. She told me how they had hired someone from another well-known Midwestern university who was well-versed in marketing and were going to up their marketing to attract a wider range of students, as well as to increase the number of applications. My kiddo gets weekly mailers from U of Chicago - very slick marketing campaign - they must be spending a fortune!
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A selectively edited video may not provide the best overview of how college admissions work.
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So I guess you aren’t quite done discussing TO admissions?
Colleges cast a wide net when ■■■■■■■■ for applicants. They don’t solely target students with high test scores.
And why wouldn’t TO colleges market to high scoring test takers, among other groups? Test optional means the schools will consider test scores when provided, but also recognize there are other means by which students can demonstrate academic ability and potential.
This is where I hope more parents become savvy and help their children understand the difference between marketing vs. recruiting.
As you said, you understand colleges buy the personal information of students taking the SAT and/or ACT within different score ranges. That data is sold in thousands of students per buy…unfortunately, there are lots of students who think mail personally addressed to them means there is some sort of specific targeted reason (beyond being in a score range that can have 200 point range between highest and lowest) NEU, NYU, Purdue and others are suddenly in their mailbox, as opposed to realizing that 10-20K students (if not more) received the exact same mailings.
Those same schools will for sure also be figuring out how to target marketing to test optional students like the ones they really liked (and accepted this past year) and find more applicants to persuade to send an application. I’m sure some schools might decide to expand the SAT/ACT range of students whose personal information they purchased from College Board (from these boards, it seems like that is something UChicago has done for years). Those students hopefully will also learn to understand the difference between marketing and recruiting.
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Yup. My son has gotten mail and email from a wide range of schools - from the non competitive to the very selective - but he knows that they aren’t really targeting him personally. It’s probably easier to ignore in his case as he isn’t getting top 20 mailings - I’m sure if you (or your kid) is it is tempting to think it means you have a decent chance of being admitted (it doesn’t).
Chicago may be elite but they are trying to bring in apps from anyone. Apply for FAFSA and they waive your app fee. WUSTL waives app fees. W&L sends app fee waivers.
Even the elites market to those they know they won’t accept. That = lower acceptance rates for them.
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Good heavens…if that’s true, I find that disgusting. And, yes, please do call me naive and idealistic.
I had no idea things had sunk this far…but then again, maybe I did.
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They tell you that admissions are holistic. There are no minimums so they would disagree with what I say.
And while U Chicago has a 34/35 act split they did enroll a 20 so I suppose one can be the exception.
These are huge businesses, like many others, in so many ways. But yes, they ‘encourage’ quantity in addition to quality, especially the schools that are need aware in admissions.