Underprivileged kids with high test scores would still be able to submit their scores to test optional schools, and if the scores really stand out among their peers from low performing schools, then it may be very beneficial to their admissions chances.
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Many of these also don’t have great GPAs or want to do the work in college. Jobs dropped out after one semester at Reed because he thought it was too much work. Gates and Zuckerberg may have been able to do the work but also dropped out for a better opportunity, it’s not like they made a positive impact on campus. Note that Gates and Zuckerberg supposedly had high test scores. Artists go through a separate review and don’t have test scores held against them, similar to athletes. Maybe the cases that you can point to involve someone like Chris Christie, who didn’t get to Princeton and ended up at U Delaware, if test scores kept him out, sure that would be an example.
?? I am not sure of your point.
Students who have poor GPAs or lack work ethic presumably would have difficulty making it through a holistic review.
I simply meant that requiring test scores and using them as a barometer does not result in a “better” student body — as I guess your Jobs/Gates examples demonstrate.
I wasn’t pointing to any specific “famous” examples. Actually, when I wrote my previous post I was thinking of my own former high school and college classmates who did not match my SAT scores but went on to have impressive careers in various areas.
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I know your comment was made months ago but I’m just perusing this thread now. Teachers do fill out a form (if using the Common App recommendation sheet) that ranks the student on the things you mentioned.
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Are many kids from underperforming high schools getting into top schools to start with…especially without scores? College AOs know the high schools they service. They aren’t going to accidentally accept a student with all As from an underperforming high school without some other serious info to back up the app. An ACT/SAT, some AP tests taken outside of school, letters of rec that say this student is the absolute bomb and will be able to hold his own at x college. AOs aren’t dummies. They do not want to admit kids who can’t handle the work.
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According to a study, grades are the best predictor.
???
But only when the classes are rigorous enough. At an underperforming school where APs aren’t available and maybe As are easy to come by, AOs can’t just use grades. They need to look at the whole package. There are some comments above about high GPA students not doing well in college because they presented transcripts with inflated grades. I’m saying that AOs know if grades are inflated. They know the high schools and they also have the school profiles. I just don’t think there are many kids out there being accepted based solely on GPA from a high school that is not a well known, high performing school.
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Coming from an underperforming school I worry about this. My journey has been commuting between high school and community college since APs are scarce. Have easily taken the most rigorous( calc1,2,Linear Agebra ,Macro,Micro.and 4and 5 on the AP tests available. It’s difficult to know how this will be seen although my SAT is 1500 and will help. Awaiting 3 T30 ish schools and that’s the one aspect I’m concerned about but have no control over it. We will see beginning tonight
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Oh my goodness. Good luck to you!!! You should like the kind of student that would be highly desirable and you’ve done everything you can. I hope you also applied to some safeties since top schools have so, so many apps these days.
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I’m fortunate to have been accepted to UNC as well as NC State for Engineering. Others are all private( Wake,BC,Davidson) so EA UNC has been peace of mind. I will say I have research and sent it in with comments from the journals reviewers,one from MIT/Harvard joint degree. Believe that’ll help. But in the essay I specifically addressed the school as underperforming and the ways I attempted to excel, it’s as you say there to see on the profile so it was best to add it and show I was aware of it as a freshman. Anyway it’ll be interesting to see beginning at 5pm!
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Test Optional Results
I’m going to write this in general terms so as not to make my kid identifiable. Main intent of this post is to add a data point regarding test optional outcomes. I’m not going to provide state of origin, race, ECs. Generally, kid was top 5% with high rigor.
Here’s the tl;dr: safeties 1/1, matches 4/4, reaches 1/13.
Category 1: HPYSM:
Applied to 4, rejected 4
Category 2: Next tier top private schools - rest of Ivies plus top 4 LAC (A,W, Swat, Pom), Caltech, Northwestern, Duke, U Chicago, Vandy, WUSTL, Rice, ND, Georgetown, etc:
Applied to 6, rejected 4, WL 2
Category 3: Tippy top publics (Michigan, UCB, UCLA) all are OOS; note UCs are test-blind:
Applied to 3, accepted 1, WL 2
Category 4: Next tier public and similar largish private - Northeastern, CWRU, Wisconsin, McGill, Emory, Tulane, NYU, UVA, UCSD, CMU, USC, Tufts, etc:
Applied to 2, accepted 2
Category 5: SLACs ranked in 20-40 (USNWR) range:
Applied to 3, accepted 3, unsolicited merit money from all 3.
Some might question “fit” on such a broad list, but with Covid severely limiting our campus visits, and fact that kid is pretty easygoing about geography, social scene, etc., she did indeed consider small LACs, huge state schools, and things in between.
Timeline - took advantage of unrestricted EA - had 3 acceptances in hand by end of December, another 2 by end of Jan, then the long wait began, but she was in a pretty good place. (By then there had also been one rejection and one deferral.) By stats we could have called one of the large school matches a safety…but it’s a good idea to have a conservative mindset about that right now. Strategic use of time (having an acceptance before Jan 1) is IMO a safer safety than projecting based on stats, unless you’re looking at an auto-admit school.
Tips learned from seeing process play out:
-For a particular student, there is likely to be some cancellation in play between “hooks” (legacy/ALDC, URM, favorable geography, FGLI, etc.) and “anti-hooks” (ORM, overrepresented geography, SES, overly common ECs, etc.)
-If at all possible, don’t stop taking foreign language classes short of what your high school offers.
-Essays matter a lot for SLACs. UC PIQs matter as well.
-Re: private college admissions coach - considered the idea but did not end up going that route. CC website can be enough. Recommend having parent on the forums and not the kid. But for you kids doing this on your own - we are here for you!
-Even the “low-stress” kids start feeling anxious in the last few days before results are released.
We are grateful to be so lucky: one reach is great, since she can only go to one college.
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Sorry for the slow reply but this is false as much as it is true.
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