I believe you…but many schools do limit the number of TO acceptances, because USNWR rankings dings colleges if there are more than 25% of students without scores. Not sure they can get around this by requiring scores after admission, or not.
Tulane’s Jeff Schiffman confirmed this on a webinar just the other day…Tulane has gone TO for the upcoming year and he said they will limit the number of TO acceptances because the President and Trustees care about USNWR rankings. I expect many colleges share those sentiments, and policy.
You are right that it will depend on the colleges. I was only speaking of NESCACs.
I suspect TO is like other aspects of athletic recruiting: if you are the top recruit at a school that is only partially test optional, you won’t have to submit scores. If you are #10, well that’s probably another story.
This is probably the best summary of the situation. It was always the case that the freshman starters have much lower requirements that the senior backups, pretty much for every school and every sport. A couple coaches laid that out in detail for us. One said 27 for a first year starter, 34 for a developmental recruit who may or may not ever see the starting lineup.
I don’t know why TO would work differently. If you are a top athletic recruit you can be lower on academics. If you are a lower athletic recruit you need to be at the top academically. Either with a high test score or otherwise (this year maybe no score but that means you need a high rank or GPA at highly regarded school).
I was merely pointing out that many schools limit how many TO applicants they admit.
So, to play that out, a coach likely can’t only have TO recruits as admissions is highly likely to place TO limits (on a percentage basis) on the cohort of athletic recruits.
I don’t always want to hear everything Jeff says, but I do appreciate his honesty. I feel like they are more open about what goes on behind the curtain than most schools.
All interesting - thank you. I think if one runs with the takeaway gleaned from Tulane, TO kids or kids with lower scores who do not want to submit those scores and thus will be TO, will - unless truly state superstar athletes - be at a significant disadvantage regardless and all this TO buzz is really no more than an outward attempt to show sollidarity and care considering the circumstances and PR as opposed to what will really be put into practice in the admissions process. I hope TO will genuinely be utilized en mass, but only time will really tell.
Moreover, one “will” in fact be able to take the test in June (ACT). July, Aug or thereafter at some pont, but . . . one’s chances of nailing a respectable score after all the Covid-19 upheval (barring the super geniuses, of which their always seem to be a plethora on this board) whilst no doubt wearing the restrictive mask, will be pretty tough, making those trying to get accepted TO, much the less play a sport, in for a rough and disappointing ride should they think TO will give them a possble window that was not there before. Seems the college sweepstakes continue same as they always have.
I don’t see how they can hold it when one cannot even sit on a beach or shoot baskets here in Cali. But, on their official site, even in the face of SAT postponing its June date, ACT is still “green light go” nationwide - late reg. expires May 22 for June 13 exam. With the latest posted pop up - “During the week of May 26, we will notify students and announce all test center closings and cancelations for the June 13 test date. However, as ACT and other agencies navigate ongoing developments, testing at any test center is subject to change at any time between now and June 13, 2020.” The liability would seem just incredible if even a tiny chohort of kids got sick from attending and passed it on, alas, the dollars may mean more for the ACT, Inc. and they have a big insurance policy. But, it will be a huge risk liability wise. I am certainly not looking forward to throwing my kid into that soup of stressed out, immune system worn out teenagers for four hours.
I’m actually guessing it happens, but lots of centers will be closed. Currently D has a seat reserved in a different state, because she was supposed to be at a (now canceled) soccer tourney there. I am debating between moving her location to our town, which obviously is easiest, or to one 3 hours away where we have a place to stay for the night that I think is more likely to have an open site. I’m guessing once site closure is known, those kids will be flooding every center within an hour drive trying to get in.
I’d suggest taking the June ACT and if the score is good send it. Also, probably smart to sign up at a test site you think is less likely to be closed. For my state that means not a public school.
The hardest part about the ACT is that they state on their website that they could cancel up until day prior - yikes! Very hard for kids to prep and then have the rug pulled out from under them - hello AP tests! I spoke to a college consultant today and she said the ACT group is trying to move to test to larger locations in the markets that have these facilities - ie: college lecture halls, music halls etc vs current high school and middle school locations - as they could accommodate the same amount of kids, but have a lot of space to spread them out. They also increased the pay rate for proctors by a couple dollars. Sounds like they want it to happen - but still very skeptical and I know our state’s plans don’t show gatherings of more than 5 people until third week of June - if all goes well. Also, she said it was mentioned that the section tests in the late summer/early Fall would most likely be limited to major markets and no one should plan on section retakes as part of their strategy - at this time.
Even though a school is TO, almost all coaches suggest athletes submit scores especially if they are close to 700 because it can only help their candidacy when evaluating a student’s abilities. Remember, they had already reviewed her March of junior year test scores during the pre-read in July. Perhaps the coach felt she would not need a tip or support if she hit 1400+? I don’t think it would be appropriate to name the coach at Bowdoin but this was also the case at 2 other Nescacs, so we didn’t find it unusual.
Some private schools have rampant grade inflation to help their athletes get recruited. It’s pretty shocking how many 3.9 athletes have 500 SATs-not kidding. SAT/ACT scores can level the playing field.
Test-Optional has been a very successful marketing strategy for colleges-- lots of $80 applications are generated by kids who have strong grades but low scores. Low acceptance rates increase selectivity and attract more $$ applications.
Lots of athletes were encouraged to take the February 2020 ACTs this year. There was a lot of talk in Asia of students being restricted from going to school but we never thought it could happen here…ugh!
At the end of the day, if you are a genius test taker, you are “cool”. If you are a superstar state and national standout athlete with decent scores, life is gravy and this topic is a non-issue, you will find a great college and decent team, if you have not already found one based on buzz and interest alone.
My guess is, the majority looking for answers to this unique Covid-19/TO riddle fall into the great student, good athlete but, athletics is a complement to academics, type scenario. A few may have stellar scores, but many will end up with scores that simply don’t justify submission in an environment where “supposedly” there will be no penalty for withholding on the purely “admissions” side.
The interesting thing is, what was a good marketing ploy to earn that extra $80 per app, with TO across the board for admissions now, sets up a whole new dynamic, because you will no doubt get many applicant athletes with decent scores (but not stellar) not wanting to go up against the genuis group of test takers - feeling their grades, ECs, recs and demonstrated interest substantiate their fitness for a specific college more than anything else. And, would it really be fair to materially penalize the kids not submitting scores whether they could not take the test or their scores were nuked due to all the craziness of this period? The colleges are saying no (and that is probably with a nudge nudge wink wink demeanor until stats demonstrate otherwise). . . but we have heard crickets from the official NCAA, NESCAC and other college associations who make detrminations over DI-III. Alas, not much I learned about the whole app process indicates fairness is a big consideration, so the reality is - despire a few anecdotes, until a TO chohort of students striving for NESCAC athletic slots (and even just acceptance) actually get offers/acceptances without the submission of scores, or a definitive revised policy is formally released by the colleges on this matter and the NCAA - nobody will really know at all until next year around this time, maybe the top of 2021 for EDs if we’re lucky.
My d is one of the highly recruited, superstar state champion athletes with decent grades (3.7) from a great school, but no test scores. And not hopeful for stellar test scores if she does take it.
So our quandary is…does she take it at all? One NESCAC TO school requested her scores along with transcripts, school profile and course selection. The other school knows she doesn’t have scores and just went TO for 2021 only. I mean, does TO really mean TO? They have both seen her grades and course selection and they still want to send it in for early reads.
She has some DI safety schools, but we are really hoping these schools really mean Test optional.
Even if the ACT takes place as planned, I’m not sure I want her in a room for hours with a group of strangers, especially since her dad is treating some of these kid covid cases; we are seeing it here.
This adds to the further confusion and dliemma. This is not just “the flu”, and it does not just impact the student if they catch Covid-19. We are similarly not super comfortable about putting our D into a group test with dozens of other kids in Los Angeles (which remains pretty much zombie land), who have just finished a grueling and completely stressful semester with rigorours classes, AP exams, and an “online” instruction protocol that piled on probably twice as much work and unpredictability as regular classes did - whose immune systems are no doubt completely toast. Add to that the lack of any optimal prep and having to breathe through a mask for 4 hours (whch those on the front line will tell you is not easy and much different than a trip to the market) - not a recipie for testing success by any measure. One would think the athletic/academic powers that be would understand this and accomodate, but . . . if one’s competition has the scores, and one doesn’t or does not submit . . . they win, maybe. We’ll know for sure in 2021. Lotta game left.
June ACT now cancelled in our area in So. Cal. So, not even a chance to submit in by July. Interesting times, I would thinks coaching community will be sensitive to this.
Thank you all for your input and advice. I really appreciate this thread.
Here in NY - we have the same mass testing site cancellations. The ACT held back in publishing the list of cancelled testing centers and didn’t allow for site changes. Majority of students won’t have the opportunity to test.
It wouldn’t make sense for recruitment to be contingent on a test score which may never be obtained or even reliable. There won’t be opportunities to superscore . If students are fortunate enough to test - they probably will have to drive a few or several hours to an available site. Social distancing conditions will be in effect. All of these conditions won’t be conducive to a good testing environment for these kids. If they’re out of luck with in-person testing, then they will be faced with online tests - and you know especially with how College Board handled the AP’s what this will mean for online SATs/ACTs.
Yesterday the CEO of the ACT left the organization…
Coaches should have a pretty good idea by now of how things will work at their respective schools. If a recruit won’t be able to test, or doesn’t have a score she likes, just discuss the situation with the coach and listen very carefully. If the coach wants the athlete, she’ll know the best path forward. If the coach is lukewarm toward the athlete, it’s better to find that out now.
Will some schools be out of reach to those without scores? Possibly. But there are always conditions that place some schools out of reach for some recruits in a given year that would have been good fits in another year. It’s one of the tough lessons recruits learn during the process. Admittedly, this is an unusually tough year for recruits and it’s probably worth acknowledging that throughout the process.