Texas A&M Should Not Do Away With Academic Admission

Colleges and Universities A-Z Texas A&M University
1

While I think I know why A&M is eliminating the academic admission pathway, I think it will be a huge, unforced error.

Academic admission gives students a concrete, measurable manner by which to gain admission. Contrary to automatic admission, it strikes a balance between performance and ability. It allows an alternate pathway for kids in objectively more competitive schools, which not only is a question of SES (contrary to what many argue), but also a question of school choice. For example, we live in a place with two public districts, one a standard “neighborhood” all-takers district, and the other a much more competitive magnet district consisting of kids from three regional counties, which kids can opt into. Obviously, however, by doing so, kids substantially imperil their chances of automatic entry to A&M (or UT Austin) by orders of magnitude.

If a problem of academic admission is that “too many” spots are being taken up by it, then tighten the SAT/ACT component.

Ultimately, however, the biggest reason not to do away with academic admission is that “holistic admissions” shifts power from students to administrative bureaucrats. AdComs can’t control how well an applicant did in school or on the SAT/ACT; but they damn sure control what they deem subjectively important, which kids have utterly no control over. And instead of a measure of certainty, kids are left with a futile exercise in high school “resume building” with literally no clue on what an AdCom will ultimately deem important. That’s pitiful, and we need less of it, not more. Finally, university studies, after all, is an academic endeavor. It is not, and should not be, a (futile) organ to engage in social engineering. And if some believe universities should be such places, then that should be left to private, not public, institutions.

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I believe the reason there will only be auto admits in 2021 is because the scenario is fast approaching in which the number of auto plus academic admits would be greater than the number of freshman they wish to enroll, assuming freshman enrollment is held constant.

In 2018, there were 23733 freshman enrolled, with 15805 of those being auto plus academic

In 2019, there were 23850 freshman enrolled, with 18500 of those being auto plus academic

In 2020, auto plus academic could approach 21000 or 22000, based on the jump between 2018 and 2019. We shall see!

In 2021 auto+academic could easily be greater than the desired number of freshmen enrolled, assuming freshman enrollment is held at 24K.

So, the reason for the change may simply be in the numbers. But I agree that having a definite target if a student is not 10% would be wonderful. Kids shouldn’t be taking classes just because they are gpa boosters. If Tamu is planning to lower the auto admit to less than 10%, I hope its announced 4 years in advance. At our school, freshman are told “top 10% gets you in A&M”. Actually, they didn’t even mention academic admit 5 years ago.

I get the feeling you don’t think too highly of admissions personnel. Why?

3

Really, the issue is not what UT and TAMU do but what UH does to get into the love fest. The state needs other UT and TAMU equivalent state schools, it needs to start looking like California with multiple top state options. The state could look at a better admission rubric because I am baffled by self reported admit stats, but it should be applauded for trying to reach lower SES kids and increasing diversity and first gen.

4

I think you have confused Admitted VS enrolled. The past two years around 10,500 freshmen enrolled.

5

@bluebayou Oh my, yes I did! Thank-you for pointing that out!

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Because who knows what he/she/they are thinking? And they absolutely refuse to tell you beyond high-minded bromides. People talk about the “deep state”; well university admissions people are the academic universe’s deep state. Why A&M wants to ape UT’s “holistic” admissions system, which is an incomprehensible goatscrew, is beyond me. Indeed, it seems obvious to me that academic admission is a favorable differentiator for A&M over UT, which A&M ought to continue capitalizing on.

7

I really don’t think it is going to make much difference @franknd. I think the academic admit threshold will be a general guideline VS set in stone.

I’m assuming they will move toward different departments having criteria of what is best for specific majors. (Example: Journalist and Engineers may have different strengths and weaknesses)

8

I’m dubious. But either way, “guidelines” or true holistic, the beauty of the existing system will be gone. It’s transparent. By eliminating the certainty, they will vastly increase uncertainty for thousands of applicants while not decreasing or eliminating anybody’s.
To your hypothesis, if they did actually publish guidelines (including, dare I say, minimums?) by program, that would mitigate the harm of this change, but I don’t see them doing that.

9

Last year at this time, I thought it would be nice for TAMU to keep the “Academic Admit” category, because it’s seemed like a simplistic way to ‘reward’ kids who performed well in two (albeit) limited categories of high school achievement, but (unfortunately) to the exclusion of students who perform well in other categories of achievement. Now, several things have changed my mind, among them are TAMU and the College Board & ACT themselves. I think it’s not only wise, but necessary for A&M to move towards holistic admissions outside of the Top 10%. And, I think the students of Texas will better benefit from holistic admissions.

The, now infamous, college cheating scandal (Varsity Blues) along with some other higher education scandals, and statistics published by the testing industry had me thinking more deeply about, then rethinking, the ‘class system’ of higher education. A) Cheating is rampant within the college standardized test industry. B] College admissions exams ‘favor’ wealthier/higher SEC test takers in both construct & the ability ‘purchase’ a better score. Standardized test scores aren’t predictive of future success in college (not like GPA/long-term high school performance), but is an uncanny predictor of the socioeconomic status of parents.

From College Board: https://reports.collegeboard.org/sat-suite-program-results

More compelling is that the academic admit category limits TAMUs mobility to achieve it’s strategic goals, and it’s agility to respond to ever-evolving industry and business needs and demands.

There are more than two or three objective categories that students get measured by. Here on CC, people tend to only focus on the two or three, because those are the ones that proud parents and students can most easily tout. That doesn’t mean that everything else becomes subjective. Categories such as the following are not subjective, and either “Very Important” or “Important” to TAMU:

Very Important:

  • Rigor of Secondary School Record (note: this is not a euphemism for 'my school is super-extra-uber-very-really-most competitive'). This categories measures whether or not your high school counselor checked the box that the student met the school or district requirements for having taken the most challenging classes available to them. It's not subjective, and each school has a standard that can be met... or not. There is a formula used for home-schooled students. [THIS is what differentiates the kids who make the cut for the Top 10% or not, NOT the "my school is super competitive, and that's why I didn't..."]
  • Class Rank (Another objective standard that measures performance against ones peers, and long-term success)
  • Academic GPA (a lot of people believe that TAMU doesn't consider GPA, but they most certainly do, particularly in relation to classes that support academic readiness for desired major. Further, (unweighted) high school GPA remains the single best predictor of academic success in college)
  • Standardized Test Scores (And, a little known or shared fact is that both UT and TAMU are far more interested in the subscores, than the composites. Also, in holistic review, both contextualize results.)
  • Extracurricular Activities (Demonstrations of aptitude, critical thinking, and the ability to multi-task are strong indicators of collegiate success)
  • Talent & Abilities (Both TAMU & UT put a lot of emphasis on this category to cull the brightest and best students from scores of really good students. This and ECs are where and how students differentiate themselves from the pack. If TAMU needs an exceptional debater, it's not looking for a marginal debater who has a high SAT score. It's looking for an exceptional debater/writer/dancer/composer/athlete/artist/designer, because society needs individuals with exceptional talent and abilities to be developed. After all, the William Faulkner's of the world didn't do so well on their college entrance exams, but their talents are highly valued.

Important:

  • Application Essay (formulaic & scored, and an opportunity for students to distinguish themselves)
  • First Generation (objective measure to expand and increase access)
  • Geographical Residence (objective measure to expand and increase access)
  • State Residency (objective measure to support TX taxpayers and increase intellectual diversity)
  • Volunteer Work (measurable)
  • Work Experience (measurable)

Finally, most universities (TAMU and UT included) are more transparent than people give them credit for. They tell you exactly what they’re looking for in any given year (because the needs change). Most people, it seems, just don’t bother to look and internalize that, in the pursuit of name recognition and/or prestige.

To really take a step out into objectivity is to understand what college admissions is really about. It’s not actually a twisted meritocracy that strokes the egos of parents (or students) who can afford to live or school in high SEC areas, who can get all As, who can afford expensive test prep, and a multitude of ACT/SAT sittings (status quo engineering), though there will always be overlap, because results definitively matter. It’s about the institution of higher education finding, among the scores of applicants, the students that will further the strategic objectives that best support the university/college and social development. Holistic admissions ensures that we find engineers who have critical thinking skills, and are real problem solvers, vs. being really good at filling in the bubbles. It ensures that future teachers are passionate about children, and good at teaching vs. knowing how to solve for “X” but not really able to covey that to someone else. It ensures that unconventional thinkers are injected into business and industry. And the most talented artists, musicians, and athletes are found, and get to amaze us with their craft. Holistic admissions allows universities to find the students who have the grit, the tenacity, the talent, and the will to push boundaries, and be the game-changers. No matter who they are, where they come from, or whether or not their parents can afford to spoon feed them formulaic success.

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@Sybylla I think that the State already has other UTs and TAMUs. I think that the people of Texas need to recognize that. Look at UT Dallas and Texas Tech (and, yes, University of Houston) for example. They’re not only outstanding public universities, but they’re doing great things (research and development), and they’re offering money to high performing and talented students. And those are not even remotely the only ‘other’ good schools in this state.

I think that parents have to first recognize for themselves, then be their students guides to navigating value and worth in college shopping. Then, you won’t have situations where disproportionate numbers of students (even those who really wouldn’t even find fit) trying to pile up at two universities, when there are literally dozens of excellent public choices with in-state rates.

11

Yeah, the admissions review process really isn’t some random person(s), in an office full of 6 inch thick manila folders, gone rogue & making it up as they go along. AOs are actually skilled professionals. And, they work in tandem with, and in support of each colleges strategic missions. ← For TAMU, I’m referring to the colleges within the university. And, it’s not a secret (not at all) what each college values, and is looking for. They actually tell you! The question is in whether the student demonstrates “fit for purpose” in holistic review. Here’s an example from a popular impacted major-- I mean, they leave these kids a breadcrumb trail:

Engineering: https://engineering.tamu.edu/admissions-and-aid/apply-now.html

Undergraduate Application Process

Due to the continued increase of competitive applications, the Texas A&M College of Engineering moved to a total holistic review process. This policy applies to all applications to engineering, including Texas A&M automatic admits.

Factors that are considered during the review process include the following:

*Academic achievements — class rank and SAT and/or ACT scores as well as completion of Texas A&M’s required coursework
4 years of English
4 years of Mathematics - Three of the courses must be Algebra I, II and Geometry
4 years of Science - Two courses must come from Biology I, Chemistry I or Physics I
2 years of the same foreign language
Students who do not take the recommended coursework as outlined by Texas A&M must meet the college readiness standards as defined in the State of Texas Uniform Admission Policy.

*Personal achievements — involvement in extracurricular activities, community service, leadership, employment and summer activities as well as any talents, awards and honors

*Information shared in all essays, including the optional “Additional Personal information” shoebox question

Want to understand the aims and values for the next five years (and in that, you can very easily extrapolate what TAMU engineering AOs will help find):

https://engineering.tamu.edu/about/strategic-plan.html

Another link that gives prospective applicants a peek at what TAMU values in public markets:

https://engineering.tamu.edu/about/facts-and-figures.html

Some people wonder why kids with so-called “low stats” (a phrase and subjective measurement ordained by kids and proud parents) can gain admission to some of the most coveted and impacted programs at competitive colleges like TAMU. It’s because they checked more of the boxes than those who thought that “stats” were the only measures that significantly mattered.

12

^^^^^THIS^^^^^
I am a firm believer that many neighboring state schools (LSU, ‘Bama, OSU etc) feed on the hurt pride of high performing Texas students (and their parents) who get CAPed and PSA.

There is a reason they offer in state type tuition scholarships to those kids.

If your student goes to Alabama or LSU - they are going for something different. UTD or TTU sends clear message that the kid didn’t get into UT or TAMU.

Myths keep getting perpetuated. Example UTD does not have football- so right there you have people who do not want to go there. I totally get that. However, currently the incoming freshman test scores are higher than TAMUs. And then you have this whole other layer of people saying there are too many “international” students. That is simply not true. The international undergrad population is around 4% (TAMU’s is 1.4%). What you have is a 35% Asian American population. American citizens. Yet people look at the campus and see “Foreign.” Also with UTD - people talk about how generous merit is. Sure there is more than UT or TAMU - around 21% receive merit aid. And a good portion of that is $3000 a year. Not the “full rides” / paying to go to school. If you got PSA you are not getting a merit scholarship from UTD. They are not paying those students like LSU and Bama are. You have to be a high performing academic admit (Rank higher than 15% and excellent test scores) to get AES funds at UTD. If you are national merit type student - they will give you $$$.

TTU is a really nice school and community experience- I think it is the closest to a TAMU that you can find. Sure Lubbock is isolated. But it’s not like College Station is urban. I would strongly encourage students to keep an open mind and tour Tech before going OOS.

I get Houston area students not wanting to go to UH and Dallas area kids not wanting UTD (or UNT, UTA). But depending on the major - they are really worth a second look.

UTD in particular and TTU and UH are really not the same schools they were 20 years ago. Parents need to not let their preconceived beliefs about these schools sway their students decision. It’s really easy as a TAMU or UT grad to think my kid is a better student than TTU or UH.

TAMU and UT were “easier” to get into back then and there was less competition.

13

Being a Northerner (non-Texas native), I have no idea what the in-state perception of UTD, Tech, and UH were 20 years ago, but I can tell you that they’re very well respected outside of the State of Texas today.

14

You have to look back years and years @nomatter and the way higher education in Texas was founded and funded. Years ago it was UT and TAMU established as the marquee state schools funded by the PUF. Back when women didn’t go to TAMU.

Other schools like TTU and SFA (which was a teachers college) served specific, regional purposes. In the 70s/ 80s it was obvious that was not a sustainable model with growth and size of the state and many of the smaller schools were folded into the TAMU and UT system. (And Southwest Texas was Renamed and there is the grouping of Texas State schools). Other larger schools (TTU, UH) remained outside the UT and TAMU system. And were allowed to expand programs/mission beyond the regional design. But the PUF funds still go just to TAMU and UT.

15

Two responses:

  1. Not buying that wealth per se “buys” high SATs. Khan Academy is free. Second, people love to tout that high SES = high SAT, thus somehow undermining the value of standardized tests. But the argument confuses correlation with causation. Every study I have ever seen demonstrates that higher intelligence = more wealth. And every study I have ever seen also demonstrates that intelligence is highly inheritable. So it doesn’t surprise me in the least that high SES = high SAT. Indeed, if it didn’t, then I would think there was something fundamentally wrong with the SAT.

  2. As I wrote in my initial post, if TAMU is worried about academic admits taking up “too many” spots, then the solution is simple: tighten up the SAT/ACT requirement.

Finally, while not directly responsive to your arguments, I simply note that the HS my kids attend has a 40% free/reduced lunch population and is nevertheless top 15-20 among all Texas public HS in mean SAT (100% participation). But it’s a magnet school. And as I mentioned earlier, by leaving the only certain path to TAMU (or UT) admission as the top 10% (or top 6%) route, they screw kids who accept the challenge of taking a long bus ride, eschewing varsity sports (the district doesn’t have it because UIL won’t allow it), etc., to such a school for the sole purpose of preparing themselves well for college success.

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@franknd I actually had similar thinking. I too feel academic admit will allow students to explore other things while still being able to stay in a safe zone to be admitted. I certainly can feel your post. This whole holistic review is not new though. I remember decades ago when I came to this country. I found a study buddy at this jc. We both came from the same country, have similar background and parents. We became closed friends very fast, almost like brothers and studied all pre req classes together before applying. We wanted to go to the same university so we applied to the same schools. One of these schools accepted him but not me. We had almost identical gpa. The only difference was the essay. Yes, we proof read each other. In his essay he talked about how difficult his life was because he had to work long hours at these supermarket after school (!) and send money to help his sick parents oversea, he also talked about how being first gen (!) was a difficult thing for him and his plan to go back to help his home town. I could not put those into my essay. I felt it was unethical and wrong. I feel this holistic review has a lot of room to be subjective. You get through gate 1 with your sat/act, gpa and ranking. Then they will look at other stuff. If someone likes your (or your paid) writing/story (or your made up story), you certainly will get a push there. This is not to say all essays are bs but there are certainly room for errors. When there’s more human involved, there’s a great chance it will not be objective.

Each school has their way of doing things. If it works for them, great. If it works for you, great. But that certainly does not make it right/fair for everyone. And sorry, I **am not ** a fan of low income and first gen support. It’s a good thing to do but they are doing more than needed for this group with tax dollars. And on top of this, not all claimed are low income and first gen.

18

OMG this! Every time I read this, it gets in my craw more than anything. I live a mile from the UTD campus. The students work at my grocery store, pharmacy, and the restaurants around. They are the most lovely people you will ever meet. Brown does not equal bad. Incidentally, there are many “non-foreign” people who go to school there and also work in the places I frequency. Also lovely people.

This is absurd. Not only do statistics prove it, but it just makes sense. While I agree that everyone can do Khan Academy
 not everyone knows that it is available to them. Many people can’t afford the high-speed internet (or computers) required to access it. Many people have parents who are each working two jobs to put food on the table and don’t have the time or resources to focus on their kids’ education. Many kids are having to work 20-30 hours a week just to help their families make ends meet.

For many of these kids graduating, much less being top 10% of their class, is a MUCH bigger accomplishment than scoring a 1350 on the SAT.

19

Uh
 So, just so that you’re aware-- Neither the ACT or SAT measure intelligence. At all. I mean, not even remotely. Nor does the College Board or ACT make those types of claims. :neutral:

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Statistics prove what? That there is a rationally explained correlation? Agreed. That’s not causation.

Khan Academy is linked ubiquitously on the College Board website. You literally can’t register for the SAT without encountering it. No parental time required. More to the point, however, you’re literally talking past me. Nothing I’ve written addresses or questions the top 10% rule.