<p>I can't back it up with fact because it is my opinion, but I am just calling it like I see it and basing it on experiences of people I know. Look, maybe my comment was a little harsh and probably exaggerated, and I'm not saying that Tech is a terrible school, but if we're comparing it to A&M there simply is no comparison. Once again, there are exceptions, and I know of some pretty smart kids that have gone off to Tech and have some good friends that will probably go there next year, but all in all it is just not a well regarded school because it's student body is overall very subpar.
Honestly, the typical students from my school who end up at Tech are the ones who don't give a **** about school and make bad grades then realize that they can't get in anywhere and decide "Whatever I'll just go to Tech." I have known of at least two people who have flunked out by their sophomore year because all they do is drink (you can find this at most colleges I'm sure but it really seems more prevelent at Tech). Also, I've noticed that many people who are serious about academics transfer after their freshman year. This is all just coming from my perspective as a student at a Texas public HS that sends MANY kids to Tech, A&M, and UT.</p>
<p>"Just to put things in perspective and to try to avoid more posting wars, UT-Austin is better overall academically than Texas A&M and A&M is better overall academically than Tech. With that said, Tech has lots of positive things going for it and it takes a visit to Lubbock and College Station for an individual student to decide what is the best "fit" for them. My son was turned off by the Aggie culture when he visited as a high school senior and loves Tech while Formidable went to Tech and then transferred to A&M and loves it. Each to his own. To interested students, find what's right for you by visiting both and then decide."</p>
<p>I'd pretty much agree with this statement because there are certainly things about A&M that would not be for everyone (Definitely not the school for me, but of course I'm a diehard UT guy) and I could see picking Tech over A&M in this scenario, but from an academic perspective and for future job opportunities, A&M is the clear winner. But, that's not to say you can't do great things with a degree from Tech. I hope I didn't come off as too much of an a-hole with my opinions on the school because in the end they're really just my opinions, and I'm just basing it on what I see and other's experiences at both of these schools.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Texas Tech as the dominant state university in West Texas is competitive with every Texas state university including Texas A&M.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Lubbock is actually in the Panhandle; West Texas is considered to be the Permian Basin region. But "dominant state university?" What other schools are out there? UTPB? It's pretty easy to be the dominant state university when there's few schools out there to begin with.</p>
<p>Competitive against other Texas schools? Hahahahaha! Yeah, a school of 25,000 that has easier admission standards is really competitive against two other, more selective schools with a combined student body of 90,000+.</p>
<p>Sorry, but being a flagship school means that it is more respected, so how can Tech be competitive? Tech isn't even attracting the same types of students as UT and A&M.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Texas Tech is the only state university that has a graduate school, law school, and medical school on the same campus.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Considering that their law school is only 5th out of 9 in Texas, who cares? It gets beat out by UT, SMU, Baylor, and even UH.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Reflecting its growing academic prowess
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Last I checked, you only needed a 2.5 GPA on 12 semester hours to get in. Even Angelo State's requirements are harder.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Texas Tech was one of only seven colleges/universities in the country awarded a Phi Beta Kappa chapter last year
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, put that on your resume...</p>
<p>
[quote]
Tech's Honors College has early entrance programs to both the medical and law schools at Tech. Can a similar statement be made for TAMU's Honors programs?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Considering that A&M's program is the best of the two, who cares?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Tech's Honors College is one of only four or five honors colleges in the country with faculty having appointments only in the honors college and a couple majors only for honors students.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Once again, put this on your resume and see how far it gets you...</p>
<p>
[quote]
UT-Austin is better overall academically than Texas A&M
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Once again, you don't have a clue. The reason I picked A&M was because it's the other way around. UT only has three really standout programs: business, engineering, and geosciences. Other than that, their programs are no better than your average state school. Not only was my major at A&M on par with UT's, I felt that A&M had more to offer me academically and socially. I probably would've been just a number at UT.</p>
<p>
[quote]
With that said, Tech has lots of positive things going for it and it takes a visit to Lubbock and College Station for an individual student to decide what is the best "fit" for them.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Haha, like there's anything in Lubbock that you can't find in College Station. Well, maybe if your son is on the state prairie dog hunting team, Lubbock would be a better fit for him.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My son was turned off by the Aggie culture when he visited as a high school senior and loves Tech
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Doesn't say a whole lot about your son if he wanted to be around a drinking and partying environment filled with morons with no direction in life rather than a school that has a better reputation academically.</p>
<p>He's probably going to regret not sucking up the Aggie culture in order to get a degree that's easier to find a career with.</p>
<p>
[quote]
To interested students, find what's right for you by visiting both and then decide
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't think there's a lot of students out there who have a decision of A&M or Tech. Hell, I was an exception.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Back up your bluster about Tech with facts.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, for starters, you could compare Tech's rankings to A&M and UT in US News.</p>
<p>Green, just because the guy doesn't agree with you doesn't mean you need to go soft. Your opinions are perfectly valid.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Honestly, the typical students from my school who end up at Tech are the ones who don't give a **** about school and make bad grades then realize that they can't get in anywhere and decide "Whatever I'll just go to Tech."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How's this harsh? It's the truth. I think it's pretty moronic to pick Tech over A&M only based on the environment because A&M is ranked way higher than Tech. A&M vs. UT of course, but not Tech. I made that mistake back then and it was pretty stupid of me.</p>
<p>Tech is just a better known Texas State, that's all.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What?? I don't mean to sound like an a--, but unless you're in agriculture, that statement is FAR from the truth. UT is by far the strongest university in Texas - public or private - in terms of overall faculty quality and strength of academic departments. And yes, that includes Rice. This means as an overall research university, not just undergrad. EVERY academic ranking source shows this from the National Research Council, London Times, all the departmental rankings in USNWR. Even in the USNWR undergrad rankings, UT has a higher peer reputation score than Rice. In the NRC rankings, UT-Austin was #1 in Texas in 30 of its 37 ranked academic programs (the others were bio-related programs at UT Southwestern and Baylor COM). Practically EVERY academic department program at UT is ranked in the top 20 (or higher) - in the country. Neither A&M, Rice, or certainly any other school in Texas can say the same thing. Only 3 standout programs?? You realize that except for business and engineering, they really don't rank undergraduate programs, right? If you look at graduate rankings, however, basically EVERY academic program at UT is among the top in the COUNTRY, and # in Texas. And even at the undergrad level, you are forgetting programs like architecture, film, journalism, computer Science, music, etc. which are stellar undergrad programs and regularly listed among top programs at the undergrad level. Just because there aren't formal undergrad rankings doesn't mean UT doesn't excel in them as well. And since the graduate programs are among the top in the country, why wouldn't you think the undergrad programs wouldn't be? I don't mean to downplay A&M - it is indeed a strong school. But UT-Austin really is on a different level and closest Texas has to Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, and Wisconsin (I'm not counting UVA or UNC since UT is already a much stronger research university than them in terms of overall ranked academic departments and faculty quality).</p>
<p>To put something in perspective... UT, Rice, and A&M are all strong engineering schools. But do you realize UT has more faculty in the prestigious National Academy of Engineering than both Rice, A&M, and every other school in Texas <em>combined</em>? And that it is number 4 after only MIT, Stanford, and Berkeley in terms of faculty with this honor? It's not just due to UT's size - even in terms of percentage of faculty with this honor, UT is still stronger than Rice and A&M.</p>
<p>Formidable,</p>
<p>Did you suck a lemon this morning or something? </p>
<p>"Doesn't say a whole lot about your son if he wanted to be around a drinking and partying environment filled with morons with no direction in life rather than a school that has a better reputation academically.</p>
<p>He's probably going to regret not sucking up the Aggie culture in order to get a degree that's easier to find a career with."</p>
<p>That's just an offensive "you don't have a clue" (as you like to toss out) statement to make.</p>
<p>UT-Austin's graduate programs are among the best in the nation. Texas A&M is a distant second to UT-Austin as a comprehensive research university..period.. Law, Business, petroleum engineering, English, computer science, library resources, Plan 21 Honors Program and on and on. Texas A&M is a fine school and UT-Austin is better.</p>
<p>And Tech's Honors College can go toe-to-toe with A&M Honors Programs on almost any measure as well. </p>
<p>You like posting wars, don't you? And cut the personal insults, please.</p>
<p>formidable: relax. It is OK if people have opinions different from yours. Your behavior diminishes the credibility of you opinions.</p>
<p>Also: If everybody is a liberal non-conformists, then aren't they conforming?</p>
<p>The so-called "herd of non-conformists"</p>
<p>
[quote]
Except for UT Austin, Texas Tech as the dominant state university in West Texas is competitive with every Texas state university including Texas A&M.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Hahahaha, youre talking football, right? ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Let's talk facts. Texas Tech is the only state university that has a graduate school, law school, and medical school on the same campus. Reflecting its growing academic prowess, Texas Tech was one of only seven colleges/universities in the country awarded a Phi Beta Kappa chapter last year (with UT-Austin and A&M as the only other Texas state universities with chapters).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The only thing that Texas Tech has on its campus that A&M doesnt (besides tumbleweeds) is a law school. This is great for Red Raiders who want to stay in Lubbock for a few more years and also for the handful of honors students who want to take law classes, but other than that who cares? Congrats on the Phi Beta Kappa chapter btw. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Tech's Honors College has early entrance programs to both the medical and law schools at Tech. Can a similar statement be made for TAMU's Honors programs? The dean of Tech's Honors College, Dr. Gary Bell, is consulted by universities around the country to advise on their honors programs. For example, a couple years ago Dr. Bell critiqued University of North Texas' honors program. Tech's Honors College is one of only four or five honors colleges in the country with faculty having appointments only in the honors college and a couple majors only for honors students.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Lonestardad, if by your own admittance A&M is better overall academically than Tech, then what makes you think the same does not hold true for the honors colleges at each university? Im sure the Tech Honors College is a fine program, but seriously, take off the scarlet and black colored sunglasses for a moment. I dont believe for a second that you would be comparing honors students from schools like North Dakota State University, Montana State University, or University of Idaho (all Tier 3 peers of Texas Tech) with honors students from A&M, so I fail to see why you are implying that Techs honors program is on an even playing field with a program at a university like A&M.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What?? I don't mean to sound like an a--, but unless you're in agriculture, that statement is FAR from the truth. UT is by far the strongest university in Texas - public or private - in terms of overall faculty quality and strength of academic departments. And yes, that includes Rice. This means as an overall research university, not just undergrad. EVERY academic ranking source shows this from the National Research Council, London Times, all the departmental rankings in USNWR. Even in the USNWR undergrad rankings, UT has a higher peer reputation score than Rice. In the NRC rankings, UT-Austin was #1 in Texas in 30 of its 37 ranked academic programs (the others were bio-related programs at UT Southwestern and Baylor COM). Practically EVERY academic department program at UT is ranked in the top 20 (or higher) - in the country. Neither A&M, Rice, or certainly any other school in Texas can say the same thing. Only 3 standout programs?? You realize that except for business and engineering, they really don't rank undergraduate programs, right? If you look at graduate rankings, however, basically EVERY academic program at UT is among the top in the COUNTRY, and # in Texas. And even at the undergrad level, you are forgetting programs like architecture, film, journalism, computer Science, music, etc. which are stellar undergrad programs and regularly listed among top programs at the undergrad level. Just because there aren't formal undergrad rankings doesn't mean UT doesn't excel in them as well. And since the graduate programs are among the top in the country, why wouldn't you think the undergrad programs wouldn't be? I don't mean to downplay A&M - it is indeed a strong school. But UT-Austin really is on a different level and closest Texas has to Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, and Wisconsin (I'm not counting UVA or UNC since UT is already a much stronger research university than them in terms of overall ranked academic departments and faculty quality).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>LOL JWT, I hope to heck you are a Longhorn. UT is indeed a fine university and on the whole it is better than A&M. But, for all the stats you threw out there the fact remains that in 2008 UT sits at #44 on the US News rankings and A&M at #62 (And if memory serves me correctly there was a period in the mid to late 90s when A&M was actually ranked HIGHER than UT). Lets be honest, its not like UT is ranked in the low to mid 20s along with Berkeley, UCLA, and Michigan. Yes, I realize UT has more individually ranked programs than A&M, but when it comes down to the caliber of students attending, the schools are more equal than you think. </p>
<p>
[quote]
To put something in perspective... UT, Rice, and A&M are all strong engineering schools. But do you realize UT has more faculty in the prestigious National Academy of Engineering than both Rice, A&M, and every other school in Texas <em>combined</em>? And that it is number 4 after only MIT, Stanford, and Berkeley in terms of faculty with this honor? It's not just due to UT's size - even in terms of percentage of faculty with this honor, UT is still stronger than Rice and A&M.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And yet for all these faculty honors, UT is only ranked a whopping 3 spots ahead of A&M on the list of top engineering schools.</p>
<p>If he can't get accepted at A&M, Tech's a good choice. My son is at A&M as a fish. Here's the stats: He was top 5%, and scored 1320 on his SAT - not too great, or too bad. He was accepted to numerous schools and offered full scholarships at two due to various awrads, achievements and a business he owns.</p>
<p>He is absolutely an average freshman at A&M where 65% of the 2007 fish class is top 10%, and the average SAT is 1290. Only 10% of the 2007 fish were not in the top 25% of their HS class.</p>
<p>Just facts - plus, Tech does have a good network, but perception is perception. UT is traditinally ranked above A&M's engineering schools, but if you look at average starting salaries and hiring out of college A&M beat UT hands down in both for engineers. UT is "THE" best funded State school in Texas, no doubt. But percepton is not always reality. </p>
<p>My advice is to visit all three and sinmplky see which one fits the best. They each have a very distinct culture, surrounding environment, and local flavor - as well as values, recreation, etc.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What?? I don't mean to sound like an a--, but unless you're in agriculture, that statement is FAR from the truth. UT is by far the strongest university in Texas - public or private - in terms of overall faculty quality and strength of academic departments
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Obviously you've never been to UT. Go to students review and read up some of the comments by former UT students.</p>
<p>Unless you are in either business, engineering, or geosciences, UT is just another large state university. The prestige of UT is generated by those three programs.</p>
<p>I already know for a fact that outside of those departments, you are not at an advantage if your resume says UT-Austin instead of A&M. A&M grads hire UT grads and vice versa all of the time. Even in business and engineering A&M is prestigious enough that there's no advantage of going to UT unless you're planning on working out-of-state or you are pursuing a MBA.</p>
<p>The exact same kids that apply to A&M also apply to UT. The real reason kids pick one over the other is because of the environment, not because UT is better academically or vice versa.</p>
<p>BTW, you really don't know what you are talking about if you think the only stand-out program at A&M is agriculture. A&M also has a strong real estate program, which is another reason why I chose it over UT.</p>
<p>
[quote]
EVERY academic ranking source shows this from the National Research Council, London Times, all the departmental rankings in USNWR.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I quote rankings a lot but there are more to a school than just rankings; there's also real world situations. A&M graduates are held at the same standards as UT graduates in the workforce. I'm a real stickler when it comes to stuff like that, and if I had felt that UT had an obvious advantage, I would've went there but it didn't. If you can get the exact same opportunities with an A&M degree as with the UT degree, then obvious there's more to A&M than just rankings and obviously the difference in rankings don't mean squat.</p>
<p>Gee, I have a degree from A&M and wow, I'm sure had more opportunities than I would have ever expected to get. I guess not going to UT with all those rankings really hurt me! Hahahahaha.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Only 3 standout programs?? You realize that except for business and engineering, they really don't rank undergraduate programs, right?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes they do, do more research.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But UT-Austin really is on a different level and closest Texas has to Berkeley, Michigan, UCLA, and Wisconsin
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Okay, you're really stretching it by trying put Texas in the same league as Berkeley and UCLA. Reminds me of when someone tried to put UT in the same league as Stanford. If UT was even close to that level there wouldn't be so many Texas kids picking A&M over it! Duh.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But do you realize UT has more faculty in the prestigious National Academy of Engineering than both Rice, A&M, and every other school in Texas <em>combined</em>?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And this translates into higher salaries for engineering graduates how?</p>
<p>lonestardad,</p>
<p>Considering that you are living this fantasy that A&M is just a big frat school that is no better than Tech, it wouldn't surprise me if you didn't teach your son that quality of education is most important.</p>
<p>If he actually picked Tech engineering over A&M engineering just because he didn't like A&M's campus, he's going to be due for a rude awakening.</p>
<p>
[quote]
UT-Austin's graduate programs are among the best in the nation. Texas A&M is a distant second to UT-Austin as a comprehensive research university..period.. Law, Business, petroleum engineering, English, computer science, library resources, Plan 21 Honors Program and on and on. Texas A&M is a fine school and UT-Austin is better.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yet you had no problem telling your son to go to Tech, great job.</p>
<p>Some of you keep bringing up academic awards and facility rankings of UT and A&M, but none of that translates into how much money and what opportunities someone will have out of college. If it did then I wouldn't be able to compete with UT graduates and yet, as it stands I've had no problems competing with them.</p>
<p>UT and A&M are close enough academically that most pick one school over the other due to the environment.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And Tech's Honors College can go toe-to-toe with A&M Honors Programs on almost any measure as well.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You don't have a clue.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And cut the personal insults, please.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Why do you not like being insulted? You insult yourself when you try to talk about schools you know nothing about, thus making yourself look like an idiot.</p>
<p>
[quote]
formidable: relax. It is OK if people have opinions different from yours. Your behavior diminishes the credibility of you opinions.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Just shut up.</p>
<p>
[quote]
LOL JWT, I hope to heck you are a Longhorn. UT is indeed a fine university and on the whole it is better than A&M. But, for all the stats you threw out there the fact remains that in 2008 UT sits at #44 on the US News rankings and A&M at #62 (And if memory serves me correctly there was a period in the mid to late 90’s when A&M was actually ranked HIGHER than UT). Let’s be honest, it’s not like UT is ranked in the low to mid 20’s along with Berkeley, UCLA, and Michigan. Yes, I realize UT has more individually ranked programs than A&M, but when it comes down to the caliber of students attending, the schools are more equal than you think.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Exactly! It attracts the same kinds of students. Choosing one over the other is a matter of personal choice, not so much academics.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If he can't get accepted at A&M, Tech's a good choice.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>tbt, if he can't get accepted to A&M, TEAM Blinn is a good choice. Or community college</p>
<p>
[quote]
as well as values, recreation, etc.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Severely lacking at Tech.</p>
<p>Formidable, </p>
<p>You toss out "you do not have a clue" with abandon and yet quote nothing regarding facts about TAMU's honors programs. Tech's Honors College is strong in part because of the facts I noted - an Honors College Dean who is a recognized expert on establishing excellent honors colleg/university programs, faculty dedicated to teaching honors students of which only 4 or 5 other honors programs in the country duplicates (Barrett Honors College at Arizona State being one), etc.</p>
<p>You quote no facts regarding TAMU's honors programs yet you spout off saying "you don't have a clue". Look in the mirror first.</p>
<p>And here's where you are an intemperate fool on making any comments whatsoever about the quality of my son's educational experiences at Tech's Honors College. They have been nothing short of extraordinary (including working with and for the Honors Dean and a whole lot more) so keep your blatherings about my son's experiences to yourself please. But I suspect you will still blather on if prior posts are any indication.</p>
<p>I finish with sound advice from tbt12626 from post 50: "My advice is to visit all three and sinmplky see which one fits the best. They each have a very distinct culture, surrounding environment, and local flavor - as well as values, recreation, etc."</p>
<p>Over and out.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But I suspect you will still blather on if prior posts are any indication.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not likely if he continues to ignore the terms of service.</p>
<p>
[quote=]
But, for all the stats you threw out there the fact remains that in 2008 UT sits at #44 on the US News rankings and A&M at #62 (And if memory serves me correctly there was a period in the mid to late 90’s when A&M was actually ranked HIGHER than UT). Let’s be honest, it’s not like UT is ranked in the low to mid 20’s along with Berkeley, UCLA, and Michigan.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, remember USNWR is not an academic ranking. The reason UT scores in the 40s overall is because it is a very large public school with 38000 undergrads, and is required by law to admit at least 90% of undergrads from in-state, so it will never be as selective as other top publics. All these factors like class size, etc., contribute to the overall low undergrad ranking in USNWR. But again, the undergrad peer reputation score is telling - 4.1, which is higher than Rice and in the top 25 of all national universities. With all of UT's undergraduate limitations due to its size, this is quite impressive. I was referencing academic ranking sources like the NRC, which measure department and faculty quality - that's the difference. By peer reputation rankings (including USNWR grad rankings), UT is indeed a peer to UCLA and stronger than schools like UVA and UNC. The same can be said for Wisconsin vs. these schools - it takes a hit for its undergrad program, but is a research/grad school powerhouse (and admittedly stronger than UT in this regard).</p>
<p>
[quote=]
Yes, I realize UT has more individually ranked programs than A&M, but when it comes down to the caliber of students attending, the schools are more equal than you think.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I have absolutely NO argument with that and I agree, but that wasn't my point at all. Someone else made the point that UT only had 3 standout programs, which is clearly not the case, when by all measures it is one of the top research universities in the country. </p>
<p>
[quote=]
And yet for all these faculty honors, UT is only ranked a whopping 3 spots ahead of A&M on the list of top engineering schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No argument there either. I would day Southern bias perhaps, but that doesn't explain Georgia Tech (which brings up another point - UT was ranked a lot higher than GT by the NRC, but GT has really shot up the engineering rankings in recent times, albeit with a slightly less stellar faculty than UT. UT's sciences programs ARE still ranked higher than GT, however).</p>
<p>
[quote=]
Some of you keep bringing up academic awards and facility rankings of UT and A&M, but none of that translates into how much money and what opportunities someone will have out of college. If it did then I wouldn't be able to compete with UT graduates and yet, as it stands I've had no problems competing with them.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I never said it did. By the same token, the starting salaries for MIT engineering grads are almost exactly the same as UT and A&M (check their websites). But that doesn't change the fact that MIT is seen as a stronger research university than both of them. My point was that while A&M is a strong research university, UT is simply stronger. That's a different issue from grad placement.</p>
<p>Somewhat off-topic question: How is Tech compared to A&M in CS? And how easy is it to transfer from Tech, to say UT, after 2 years?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Texas Tech Accreditation is in trouble. Here is the article that appeared in the Chronicle of Higher Education:</p>
<p>The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, one of the nation's six regional accrediting organizations, put Texas Southern University, Texas Tech University, and the University of the Americas-Puebla on probation at its annual meeting on Tuesday.</p>
<p>Other institutions, including American InterContinental University and LeMoyne-Owen College, were taken off probation. Randolph College was taken off warning status. But Florida A&M University was left on probation and will remain there for at least six more months.</p>
<p>The accrediting association held its annual meeting in New Orleans, where officials evaluated the progress and problems of its member institutions. Colleges that are on probation risk losing their accreditation, which threatens the legitimacy and credibility of the institution. Unaccredited institutions in the United States also cannot participate in federal financial-aid programs.</p>
<p>Texas Southern University has been in the news for the past year with financial troubles, including accusations against a former president for spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in university money on personal expenses. The institution's former president, Priscilla D. Slade, who was fired last year, was recently spared conviction of financial-mismanagement by a hung jury.</p>
<p>Belle S. Wheelan, president of the accrediting association's Commission on Colleges, said it was those financial problems that led to Texas Southern being put on probation.</p>
<p>The association put the University of the Americas-Puebla, an elite, private, liberal-arts institution in Mexico, on probation for one year for failing to rectify concerns over governance and financial stability (The Chronicle, December 14).</p>
<p>Over the past two years, and under the tenure of the now-former rector Pedro ?ngel Palou Garc?a (he resigned in late November), critics say control over the university has become concentrated in the hands of the Mary Street Jenkins Foundation. The private, family-run organization owns the university's land and has long provided financial support for the institution. However, academics at the university say the organization's new generation of leaders is running the university as a corporate venture and not a research institution. </p>
<p>"The hope is the university will accept the judgment as a challenge to rectify the problems," said Mark Ryan, a former international-relations professor and a founder of the residential-college systems at the university.</p>
<p>Ms. Wheelan said the move to put the university on probation came automatically because the institution had already been on warning status for one year. "They were making some progress, but not enough," she said.</p>
<p>Texas Tech was put on probation for failing to show that its curriculum met college-level competencies, Ms. Wheelan said. The federal government is putting new emphasis on student-learning outcomes, she said, and colleges must show what students are getting out of their classes. "Somewhere along the line, they failed to demonstrate that," she said.</p>
<p>Margaret S. Lutherer, executive director of communications at Texas Tech, said the university had put in place just last year a program to make those assessments. Because the program is so new, the university did not have the results ready for the association in time, she said.</p>
<p>"We had to have documented evidence," Ms. Lutherer said. "Since we just implemented this last year, we don't have enough evidence."</p>
<p>Texas Tech now has until September to collect that evidence, and Ms. Lutherer said university officials expect to have everything ready by then and to have the institution's accreditation reaffirmed next year.</p>
<p>Institutions that were taken off probation are now faced with the task of making sure they are not put back on that status. American InterContinental University, for example, had been put on probation for problems with institutional effectiveness, including integrity of academic records and honesty in recruiting and admissions practices.</p>
<p>Jeffrey M. Silber, an analyst with BMO Capital Markets, a financial-services company, said getting off probation is certainly a good thing for American InterContinental, but a lot of damage has already been done to its reputation.</p>
<p>"A lot of the school's competition used it against them," Mr. Silber said. "It's been losing students and has been a lot less profitable than it ever has been."</p>
<p>George P. Miller III, chief executive officer of American InterContinental, said officials were planning a new advertising kick to improve the institution's image.</p>
<p>"The probation has certainly had an impact on enrollments and the reputation of the university," Mr. Miller said. "We are going to reposition the brand early next year."</p>
<p>LeMoyne-Owen College, on the other hand, had been put on probation for financial troubles. The college was able to raise money from its surrounding community, including $3-million from the City of Memphis, to get out of debt and become financially solvent.</p>
<p>Johnnie B. Watson, interim president of the college, said the money raised help turn $1.5-million in debt into $2.3-million in surplus. "The community really got involved to save this historically black college," he said, "the only one in the area."</p>
<p>Some heads need to roll and jobs need to be lost for those bone-headed Tech administrators responsible for missing the data submission deadlines to the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools. This is an incredibly stupid self-administered and avoidable black eye to Tech (right after getting a Phi Beta Kappa chapter for its Arts and Sciences academic excellence last year). Here is an article today from Lubbock's home newspaper on the subject.</p>
<p>Accrediting group puts Tech on probation
ELLIOTT BLACKBURN
AVALANCHE-JOURNAL</p>
<p>A regional collegiate accrediting organization placed Texas Tech on probation Tuesday for failing to show that its curriculum produced college-level competency. </p>
<p>The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools' decision puts Tech at risk of losing its institutional accreditation, which can damage the university's credibility and risk state and federal funding. Texas Southern University and the University of Americas-Puebla also were put on probation at the association's annual meeting.</p>
<p>Commission President Belle Wheelan said the association monitored Tech for two years after reaffirming the university's accreditation in 2005 and apparently was not satisfied with documents it had received.</p>
<p>Whitmore </p>
<p>Wheelan believed Tech would come into compliance within the year.</p>
<p>"It's going to take a lot of work, but I have faith in them," she said.</p>
<p>Tech had not yet collected enough data to measure the general educational competency of its students that the association requires under what university President Jon Whitmore described as a new rule. </p>
<p>The issue was one of four reports the body requested after accrediting the university in 2005 and the only one Tech had not yet provided, Whitmore said.</p>
<p>Failing to fully meet such requests over a two-year period automatically triggers probation, under the association's policies.</p>
<p>Tech will have enough data in the spring semester to report to the association in September and be removed from probation in December 2008, Whitmore said.</p>
<p>"We'll have that data and we're not anticipating any problem, but the timing was just not right for the meeting," he said.</p>
<p>Probation is a serious finding of non-compliance and usually a last step before revoking an institution's membership in the accreditation association, according to the association's policies. Institutions can remain on probation for two years before they are removed from the association, according to the group's policies.</p>
<p>Tech programs remain accredited by 25 other such agencies, Whitmore said, and he had no concerns about what news of the probation so close to when college-bound high school seniors will decide which university to attend could do to next year's enrollment.</p>
<p>"As long as our accreditation is fully in place, which it is, I'm not anticipating problems," Whitmore said.</p>