Texas top 10% HS admissions challenged (again)

<p>Besides life skiils, I think high schools should offer some "future small businessmen/women" courses. I mean, a person has greater income potential if he or she can run his or her own auto body shop or plumbing company vs. being someone's assistant or employee. It would be great to teach a bit of accounting/bookkeeping, payroll, labor/emploment and immigration law, consumer awareness, etc.</p>

<p>missypie:</p>

<p>That could be made available at the HS level provided within "free" public education, or much of that is available to those who have that ambition at local community colleges.</p>

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They should consider doing what CA does... the top 12% is determined by a combination of GPA and SAT (and I think SAT IIs, but less so). These are formally or informally converted into points. Points are then ADDED for: -1st generation to college, underperforming high school, single parent homes, etc. The state of CA has the advantage of nine campus, with Berkeley being the most difficult to get into, followed very closely by UCLA, then a big gap to UCSD, then a small gap to UCSB, UCI and UCD, then a gap to UCSC, than a big gap to UCR and UCM.</p>

<p>So there is a lot of room in CA's treatment to find room for the top 12% according to their ability and life challenges (but not race per se, which was outlawed some years back).

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<p>They should consider doing what CA does... ? They as in Texas should consider doing what CA does... </p>

<p>To that I can only say, "God, have mercy on Texas if we need a lesson from California." It only takes a quick look at the direction the overall education system has taken in California in the past decades to realize how totally inept and clueless the UC has been and how it goes downhill from the UC down to the K-12. </p>

<p>Texas night have its share of problems but it surely doesn't need California's "example" of racial segregation and absolute lunacy in college admission --not to mention the fiscal crisis that is looming at the flagship institutions.</p>

<p>At least everyone knows the rules to the game in Texas. The "Ivy League" admissions process? Well that is only for the priviledged to know and the rest to wonder.</p>

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Texas night have its share of problems but it surely doesn't need California's "example" of racial segregation and absolute lunacy in college admission --not to mention the fiscal crisis that is looming at the flagship institutions.

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<p>Racial segregation? I think you mean racial imbalance, which is not racial segregation.</p>

<p>not even ivies have such a cap. this is dumb</p>

<p>UT</a> pushing lawmakers to modify ‘top 10 percent rule’ | Top stories | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle</p>

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The University of Texas at Austin has “lost control” of its admissions policy and wants to change the law that guarantees automatic entry to students who graduate in the top 10 percent of their high school class, UT President William Powers said on Wednesday.</p>

<p>Powers said a record 81 percent of the Texas freshmen entering the university this fall gained admission through the so-called “top 10 percent rule.” Unless the Legislature changes the policy during its upcoming 2009 session, Powers said, the state’s premier university soon would have no room to admit any Texas student who does not meet that standard.</p>

<p>“We’ve lost control of our entering class because we don’t have any discretion on the admissions,” Powers said at a legislative preview meeting hosted by the Texas Associated Press Managing Editors. Powers said the university supports some form of automatic admission based on high school grades but wants to modify existing law so that high achievers who happen to fall short of the top 10 percent can gain entry.</p>

<p>Powers suggested that one solution would be to adopt a more “aggressive” program allowing students to transfer to the university from community colleges.

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<p>Same song, different verse...</p>

<p>I will lay bets that nothing will change. It hasn't for years and both sides are intractable.</p>

<p>Yeah, Bill Powers knows that the top 25% at my kids' HS is academically stronger than the top 10% at lots of schools. He's having to turn down students he wants. But I really don't know if the institution would be damaged in the long term. What I've looked for, but haven't seen, are articles about how many of the top 10% admits flunk out because they couldn't have gotten in otherwise. Have graduation/retention rates declined since the top 10% rule was implemented? If so, I haven't heard about it.</p>

<p>I was told a couple of years ago when my son and I went for a visit that the retention rate of top 10%ers was higher than non. BUT, the advisor didn't elaborate on they types of classes many are taking as freshmen. The rumor mill is that many are not prepared for "college level" work and have to take remedial courses in English, Math and Science to get them up to par with kids from higher achieving schools.</p>

<p>But, that might just be sour grapes and gossip...</p>

<p>At about the 5th year I expected to see articles all over the place about how so many top 10% admits had done poorly, but that hasn't happened. Have you read Outliers? I just finished it. The author argues that you just need to be *smart enough *and that is why affirmative action works....you have to be smart enough to be in the top 10% - once you get into UT, it evens out and you do just as well in real life as other UT grads.</p>

<p>I agree. In my opinion, regardless of the school you go to, you have to be a hard worker to be in the top 10%. You have to know how to stay on top of things, make sure you do all your work, know how to study, etc. So, you have all the qualities needed to do well in college. </p>

<p>It does seem a little scary to think though that UT could end up having to take ONLY top 10% kids with no regard to other qualities or attributes.</p>

<p>My youngest is a junior, and so far, in the top 10% (fingers crossed for one more semester), so I won't be bit@hing about the rule if he gets auto admit. But, I know if he gets another B, I will moan and groan when he gets CAPed :rolleyes:</p>

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Yeah, Bill Powers knows that the top 25% at my kids' HS is academically stronger than the top 10% at lots of schools. He's having to turn down students he wants.

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<p>UT's problem is not having to turn down students it wants as much as having to accept a great number of students based on a single qualification. UT does not want a lot more of the students who rank between the 8% and 15% ... it wants more students from schools that do not play the ranking games. UT has no problem accepting students who rank below the 10% ... it wants. </p>

<p>The only reasonable solution is to drop the 10% to around 4% (and reduce the number of direct admit by 60%) add a category of direct admit via PSAT/SAT/ACT scores (to replace 2/3 of the eliminated 60%, and increase the pure meritocracy class by 20%.</p>

<p>That would work for me! why don't you run for the legislature?</p>

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That would work for me! why don't you run for the legislature?

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<p>Does that get me good seats at the Longhorns' football games? I know, I know, today IS a sad day for anyone who believes in a just system for bowl games. :D</p>

<p>Or a combination, like A&M's auto admit program, which looks at both rank AND SAT/ACT scores. If you do just that, it will eliminate many of those top 10% admits.</p>

<p>Playoffs, playoffs, playoffs!!!!</p>

<p>:D</p>

<p>Xiggi, I'd vote for you!</p>

<p>RUN, RUN, RUN!!</p>

<p>I'd go for the combo rank/scores method. That would ensure the most academically prepared kids. But, it will happen when pigs fly! </p>

<p>As for football - GO GATORS ;) </p>

<p>I wore my Longhorn Mom hat the other night, tonight it's all about the Gators!!!</p>

<p>I hate to tell you this, ag. Technically, we should be pulling for the Sooners to squeak it out if UT wants a chance at co-No. 1. But that's so unpalpable -- and unlikely -- that I hope Florida destroys OK and embarrasses Sam Bradford. Then it's Florida no. 1, UT no. 2, Utah no. 3 and the Sooners at ... oh, who cares then?</p>

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The only reasonable solution is to drop the 10% to around 4%...

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<p>xiggi, my good buddy. I'm sure that its only a coincidence that you picked the number 4 -- that is what the "totally inept and clueless" University of California uses. :D</p>