Dear friends, thank you for your response to my questions these years. You are all kind and nice.
Now, I am thinking aother question, how to choose a better-reputation college than a higher-ranking one?
In China, many people only know the rankings ,but do not know the real reputation in the Americans’ mind.
These are some colleges, and I want get your help. Please select 5 college which you most like , and let me know their real rankings in your view , not the rankings given by the US NEWS.
Thank you!
These colleges listed by location:
Tufts University, Brandeis University, University of Massachusetts–Amherst
Middlebury College
University of Wisconsin–Madison, Grinnell College
Fordham University, Vassar College
University of Virginia, College of William & Mary
Wake Forest University, University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill
Case Western Reserve University, Oberlin College, Kenyon College
They are all good colleges. They are quite different. Some are large and public, others are small and private. You’d have very different experiences. For me what I thought I wanted to study and what kind of experience I was looking for would be more important.
Impossible to rank these without knowing what the student intends to study. For example, if I wanted to study electrical engineering, I would rank Wisconsin much higher than Middlebury. But if I wanted to study foreign language, I would much prefer Middlebury to Wisconsin.
Sorry, I just can’t rank these colleges that way, and I don’t think anybody should. The reputation of the college is only meaningful and relevant to your ultimate employer. And different employers will look upon these colleges differently depending upon the type of job they are hiring somebody to do.
If you are looking to go straight to graduate school from one of these colleges, any of them will be wonderful; the gpa (and any grad school exams) will be the most important factor(s) to distinguish them in a grad school application.
I don’t believe in straight “prestige” in a vacuum when it comes to undergraduate education.
Right. LAC’s are so different from giant public unis that they’re like comparing yachts with private planes.
There are Americans who think highly of UW-Madison who have never heard of Vassar and there are Americans who think highly of Vassar who think UW-Madison is some generic state school that anyone can get in to.
However, I would tier like this (going from smallest to largest in each tier):
Oberlin
Grinnell, Middlebury, Vassar, UVa
Tufts, UW-Madison
Kenyon, WFU, CWRU, Emory, W&M, UNC
Though honestly, that is cutting the tiers extremely thin and the ones I listed really are all roughly equivalent to each other (in that it’s highly dependent on who you ask, what region you’re in, what field you’re in, etc.)
Reputation/prestige is like beauty in that it really is in the eye of the beholder. Meanwhile, the differences in experience between them is vast.
This exercise is like asking strangers to rate how beautiful some people are (and most of them are quite beautiful) when deciding who to marry when their personalities, backgrounds, temperament, etc. may be extremely different from each other.
I would put Middlebury, Vassar, Oberlin, Tufts, and Emory pretty much on the same level, with William and Mary, Brandeis, Kenyon, and Grinnell half a notch down. Grinnell would be a whole notch down, as it is much less well known, and in an unpopular location, but it’s probably the richest of the set, and I would bet on its reputation improving.
Virginia, Wisconsin, and North Carolina are all among the best public universities in the country, but not as strong as Berkeley or Michigan. It’s hard to compare directly, but Virginia’s reputation is probably the same or a little better than the Middlebury group, and Wisconsin and North Carolina the same or a little lower. Unless you are like me and you really value faculty strength, in which case they are higher than any of that set.
The other four are not on the same level and are much more local in their appeal (although Wake Forest is marketing itself to wealthy people in the Northeast.
The following is a general overall ballpark based on how my NYC STEM-centered public magnet HS classmates would have ranked the colleges when I attended ~2 decades ago from highest perception of prestige down(Mainly based on perceived admission difficulty):
University of Virginia, University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill(On par with Ivies/Peer elites including Berkeley and FSAs)
Tufts University, Middlebury College, Vassar College, Grinnell College, College of William & Mary, NYU(Stern & Tisch)
Emory University
Oberlin College
Brandeis, Case Western Reserve University
Kenyon College, Wake Forest University, NYU(CAS)
University of Wisconsin–Madison, Fordham University, University of Massachusetts–Amherst
Also, keep in mind many of these colleges may not be considered by certain groups…such as aspiring engineers because some don’t have engineering majors(LACs, UNC-CH, etc) or certain colleges higher overall perceived reputations may have perceived weaker reputations in certain programs*.
I.e. Brandeis having stronger reputation for pre-med curricula/preparation than many LACs including Oberlin** or in my academic areas of interest(East Asian history/politics) or my reason for not applying to Vassar, Midd, Grinnell or College of William and Mary as they didn't have any/as much coverage of East Asian politics when I was applying to colleges whereas Oberlin had strong coverage...especially considering its size. It would have been a near dead heat with a slight edge to Vassar if my interests were more in the area of East Asian Art/Art History.
** Oberlin’s strong natural STEM departments seem to be commonly perceived as much more oriented towards preparing students for respectable/elite PhD programs for academic/research oriented careers.
We visited many of the schools you listed. It is impossible to rank these schools as they are all good and depend on the student. My daughter attends one of the schools on your list and she could not be happier. She loves the town, the people, and the professors. She is close with her professors ( eats with them, etc), has a research position, and was recently recommended for several summer internships. Last year she was given the opportunity to present at a conference at her school and she is currently a SI in her major ( special instructor). Hint: she attends one of the publics on your list.
Your student needs to decide what he wants in terms of major, size, etc. I can’t rank these colleges the way you want them to be ranked.
Right, ignoring the potential major, career path, and region makes no sense because some of these schools are stronger/weaker in reputation/opportunities in different fields/regions.
And, as you have seen, other than maybe UVa being in most people’s top 5 (among your list), there is no consensus.
For example, even while just comparing LACs, being from IL, I don’t see Grinnell as being lesser known than Middlebury/Vassar/Oberlin.
When I was growing up in IL, in fact, I would say Grinnell was better-known than Middlebury or Vassar (which, if it was thought of at all, was thought of as some girls finishing school).
In general, almost all LACs aren’t well-known by big swathes of the populace.
Comments on the LACs not being well-known are very accurate. In terms of lay prestige, you’re not going to be impressed. But I think the majority of people who matter (i.e. employers) do know. Within the LACs, I definitely see Middlebury as ‘better’ than Grinnell. The NESCAC tends to have a better reputation. Frankly, most schools in the Northeast seem more prestigious than other schools.
I know UVA is very well-known in Virginia, and it’s a great school. But my parents had never heard of it (we’re midwest).
EDIT: I’m surprised nobody’s really mentioned UNC-CH. I’d say it’s on a par with UVA.
To be frank: these are all good universities and the reputation of the college is of minimal importance - what the student does at the college is. Look for a college that is a good fit and that you/the student can see themselves succeeding at. That may be a small private school or a large public school, somewhere that is very competitive or more laid back, a suburban college/city college/large college town/a college that is pretty separate of society.
Not saying it does not matter. Depending on the major, some colleges may have much more resources for that student than others and that should be considered. Picking a school based on “reputation” in the US though I’d ill-advise.
For big universities:
University of Virginia,
University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill
Emory University
College of William & Mary
University of Wisconsin–Madison
For LACs
Vassar College
Middlebury College
Kenyon College
Grinnell College
Oberlin College,