<p>Our '12 S2 also fits this thread. PCP - Didn’t your S1 end up at Cal Tech? If so, that gives us some hope for S2 who has his eye on Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, and MIT but has a 3.5ish UW gpa. We are trying to find some schools that are perhaps in a slighly lower tier because we are well aware that those 3 are reaches for most kids. He thinks he wants to do math or physics. I don’t know anything about architecture design schools…</p>
<p>PSAT on Saturday…hopefully S2 won’t be too tired after a 12 hour day in a debate tournament on Friday! It makes me a little nervous with this one shot for National merit.</p>
<p>qgroup, yes. S1 is at Caltech now. That outcome pleasantly surprised us :).</p>
<p>D1 is also taking PSAT this Saturday. Don’t know how she will do, but it is unlikely she will repeat her older brother’s feat. We are just hoping she can make the NMSF cutoff in our state, which jumped another 2 points this year. Her practice results were just shy of this mark.</p>
<p>There are plenty of good math and physics colleges beside the three you mentioned. How about CMU, Rice, WUSTL, and USC? Yes, these schools are still 1st tier, but not as hard on admissions as most Ivies, MIT or Caltech. </p>
<p>Georgia Tech, Michigan, Rochester and RPI are also good math and physics schools further down the ranking list.</p>
<p>[Syracuse</a> SOA](<a href=“http://soa.syr.edu/index.php]Syracuse”>Syracuse Architecture)</p>
<p>Check out my alma mater, Syracuse University’s School of Architecture. </p>
<p>Gotta like snow though! LOL…</p>
<p>So good to see this thread active again! BTW, I’m a SU grad too, and I loved it there (though I never liked the snow!), many moons ago (showed Syracuse to my S, 3.6UW, but he really wants a LAC if possible).</p>
<p>SO…we are under so much stress. S has 7 LACs on his list, and the state schools as a safety. He’d be beyond thrilled to attend any of the LACs on his list, but none of them are easy admits. He is EDing his top choice, which is a reach. S has decent test scores 690 lowest on writing SAT; everything else SATs and SATIIs over 740) which helps.</p>
<p>S (and I) are stressed with navigating the entire Common App thing…S is at a large public school where not so many kids go beyond the state system. Also…S has a brand new GC this semester (him and 500 other kids!). S feels really behind in getting apps done, although all is in motion.</p>
<p>Just checking in…its always nice to talk to others here going through a more similar application experience.</p>
<p>I’ve been reading these forums for a long time, but now it’s time for my first post. I have a senior S who fits this category and I’m so glad to see it brought back to life. I look forward to mutual support and great advice.</p>
<p>PCP, congratulations to your D on her art award. We have heard that some of the portfolio or audition-based majors, like Arch, might be a little more flexible on gpa required. If anyone has anecdotes to share about art kids with this range of gpas who made it into selective schools based more on portfolios, I’d love to hear about them. 
My S2 is also a creative kid who is interested in Arch but probably not a BArch degree.</p>
<p>Thanks for the school suggestions. I’m sure he would be happy with several of those. My impression is that they are not nearly as generous with their ‘need-based’ aid though. I’m concerned that if he gets into GA Tech for example he would get much less aid than Cal Tech or MIT would offer. Maybe they are more likely to offer some merit aid though.</p>
<p>GA Tech, even for OOS, is not all that expensive, comparatively, and some of those schools mentioned (CM, Wustl, Rice) are pretty close to the ivys in terms of difficulty of admission.</p>
<p>42cupsoftea, thanks and welcome to our thread!</p>
<p>qgroup, you’re welcome. The link below list the colleges that meet full-need.</p>
<p>[Colleges</a> That Claim to Meet the Full Financial Needs of Students - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/paying-for-college/2010/02/18/colleges-that-claim-to-meet-the-full-financial-needs-of-students.html]Colleges”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/paying-for-college/2010/02/18/colleges-that-claim-to-meet-the-full-financial-needs-of-students.html)</p>
<p>Hi Everyone… glad this thread is back!! I followed last year because I’m thinking my DS will fit in here and wanted to be informed when the time comes for him to start applying to schools next year. So far my DS has an UW GPA of around 3.2… That was for Sophmore year… his HS only calculates 10th-12th. He took the PSAT last year and scored a 219. He just took it again on Saturday. He actually seems to be making an upward trend this year. LOVES all of his classes and seems to be thriving in his AP’s… didn’t take any last year. He seems to think he will get straight A’s this year…I’m a little skeptical. He has some great atypical EC’s with a ton of leadership. </p>
<p>My question to you GKM and PCP… is what is the right range of schools for these kids? Do you look for schools based on their GPA’s or SAT scores? I’ve looked on Naviance and it is hard to pinpoint if he would get accepted or not because there are no dots that represent his GPA with his test scores. Like your S GKM, he is looking at many LAC’s with some real reachy ones in there. I’m thinking if they are looking at him holistically he may have a chance,but maybe I’m fooling myself. He has NO desire to go to our state schools because right now it’s a mess in CA and he would also not learn well in big lecture classes. So… we will be under plenty of stress next year… it will be good to follow your S GKM and see how it turns out for him. What LAC’s is your S looking at?</p>
<p>The Ivies and the top ranked LACs are GPA centric for the unhooked kids. In other words, if you don’t have the GPA, you are essentially out of the running unless you are a national/world champion at something legit. As you go down in ranking, emphasis gradually shifts toward test scores, but never to the point of dominating over the GPA. Top tech schools are also more forgiving on small GPA blemishes, if other than high test scores, the student brings something special to the school.</p>
<p>I’d suggest coming up with a list of match schools based on your son’s GPA and your school’s Naviance, and gradually shift towards your son’s test scores for a range of reaches that match his interests. If he wants to shoot for the moon, go for it, but don’t be too super-reach heavy.</p>
<p>There are of course exceptions.</p>
<p>PCP - what do you mean by 'have the gpa? S2s UW gpa is just over 3.4 but he just got a 4.0 this quarter. He is a junior and I’m hoping those junior year grades will mean more than his 3.0 during his freshman year. He got a 231 on his PSAT in sophomore year so I’m pretty sure he’ll be okay for National Merit and that the test scores should be in range. While he’s not particularly interested in any ivies, he really like Cal Tech, MIT, and Harvey Mudd. We’re well aware that those are reaches but I’m hoping that they will look more specifically at the math/science gpa and the upward trend. It sounds like your son overcame an imperfect gpa - do you attribute that to something in particular?</p>
<p>Yes, exactly what qgroup said… that was my next question. What exactly constitutes a “bad” GPA??? I know my S’s SAT scores won’t overcome a questionable GPA, but in that lies the $10,000 question. If my S has had a good but not stellar GPA through Junior year and then gets all A’s Junior and first semester Senior year where does he stand then?? That is where is gets tricky. I totally understand that tippy top schools are flooded with kids who get top grades all through HS but I’ve always heard that an upward trend… especially Junior and Senior year is a good thing. Why is this all SOOOOO confusing???</p>
<p>Sorry I wasn’t clear about GPA, and please take my view with a grain of salt, as I only came to this opinion after going through one full application cycle with S1 (and the sages on CC). </p>
<p>In general, top Ivies and Stanford want to see at least a 3.8+ GPA, preferrably 3.9+ for the unhooked kids without world class EC’s and awards. Please note that there are exceptions that I can’t explain. Top tech schools are a little more lenient if the applicant can demonstrate great passion and ability in STEM, in addition to high test scores.</p>
<p>I think my son overcame his GPA problem by demonstrating his passion and ability in genetics with several major awards.</p>
<p>PaperChase…my S decided that he didn’t have a prayer at the ivies (including one he is a legacy at) with his GPA so didn’t apply; there are a few LACs that seemed more GPA-centric that he didn’t even bother to look at . </p>
<p>LACs that he is looking at are Wesleyan, Vassar, Bates, Whitman, Hamilton, Bard and Skidmore.</p>
<p>He has very good ECs with leadership; he is pursuing the IB diploma so even thogh he has a 3.6UW, weighted is much higher. Rank may be a problem…he was in the top 10% until this year, but so many kids left/dropped out of his class that he’s now just out of it (sigh…does top 11% count for anything?),</p>
<p>5boys: I really don’t know how to choose schools with the GPA/test score difference; we tried to find a few that he would really love which had lower average GPAs than some others as reported in the common data sets, although the acceptance rates in even those schools don’t make them sure things. I mostly helped him research this…S is at a large public school with swamped GCs and most kids going for state schools…very few have even applied to these LACs from S’s school</p>
<p>For the more reachy schools, S tried to pick ones that were a good fit and that might look beyond the GPA.</p>
<p>I’ll keep everyone updated; keep your fingers crossed for him.</p>
<p>Instead of defining “bad” vs. “good” gpa, I think you need to look at the rank. When you look at the statistics provided by the reachy reach schools (like MIT, Caltech, Harvey Mudd), you can’t help but notice that the vast majority of accepted kids were in the top 10% of their high school classes. (As a matter of fact, I just checked CalTech’s stats (on College Board), and they report that 99% of those admitted were in the top 10%!)</p>
<p>Colleges want to know how the kids do with the resources they have been given and compared to the kids they attend school with. If a 3.5 gpa still places your child in the top 10% or better, then the chances aren’t as bad as you might think.</p>
<p>GreatKidsMom, my S2 was in full IB and 11 APs with a 3.56 UW, 4.24 W, 1500/2290 and got into UChicago EA, Tufts RD, URoch and our flagship with merit money. </p>
<p>His IB program is selective admit and pulls from across the entire school system; it is part of a regular HS, but the table of GPA and % of students with that GPA range are done across the entire school, not just the program. School does not rank, but he was clearly not top 10%. </p>
<p>I think strength of schedule is ultimately far more important than rank at some schools, and the trick is to find places with that mindset. Kids with uneven profiles can really benefit from time put into well-written essays and in choosing recs that will help fill in the picture. We also looked for schools that were more generous in offering IB credit/placement in the hopes that would mean they’d “get” the hit the GPA can take in that kind of a program.</p>
<p>Thanks, CountingDown–those were awesome results for your S2!</p>
<p>Your S2 situation seems somewhat similar to my S (although my S has many fewer APs…the IB kids at S school take a pretty defined path of honors/APS/IB courses. IB is so demanding compared to regular curriculum at S’s school…last two weeks for S were a blur of his first draft of his extended essay and a big math essay on top of the rest of his schoolwork and applications (and ECs…seriously, I don’t think I could do his schedule…).</p>
<p>The IB program is small at this public HS and the ranking is weighted but school-wide.</p>
<p>Essay is good but probably not spectacular; at least 1 rec should be extremely good.</p>
<p>I just sometimes feel like if your kid isn’t 4.0, high SAT and nation-wide EC recognition that getting into college these days is like reading tea leaves.</p>
<p>^It certainly is. There were days when I thought it possible that my son would only get into his safety. (He loved it, so that wasn’t a serious problem.) In his case (7 APs, no IB), I think rank (just missed top 5%) helped despite an AW average that could be calculated to be as low as 87. He had some quirky activities and wrote what I thought were pretty good essays. He also had at least one and probably two really great teacher recommendations.</p>
<p>Hi all. Our S seems to fit well in this thread with a 3.3UW, 8 APs, top 20% of public HS, 31 ACT and some unique ECs. He has applied ED to Carleton and RD/EA to St. Olaf, Lawrence, Rhodes, Southwestern, Trinity (TX) and Rose-Hulman. He received an admit letter from Rose-Hulman this week. Now we are anxiously waiting for Carleton’s ED decision in December (a high reach given his GPA). After some very positive interviews, he’s fairly confident about getting in to most of the others.</p>