<p>My last post addressed only the target GPA range for admissions to top Ivies (and Stanford). As you move just a bit down in ranking, the target GPA becomes more flexible. CountingDown’s son, mathmom’s son, and my son all had pretty good results from colleges in that band. For these schools, you really can’t have another weakness beside your GPA.</p>
<p>PaperChaserPop you said it well about not having another weakness besides GPA. I have been trying to get a grip on that elusive concept in my mind for months now and those few words just gelled it for me. Thanks. Everything a school will consider about our S is strong other than his GPA. That’s why we encouraged him to at least try for Carleton.</p>
<p>For those of you whose kids are aiming for elite colleges, the discussion in following thread may be useful in your pursuit. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/767118-under-3-6-gpa-applying-top-20-parents-thread.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/767118-under-3-6-gpa-applying-top-20-parents-thread.html</a></p>
<p>GKM… My S is looking at almost identical schools as your S but with a few more reachy schools like Bowdoin, Carleton, Middlebury, and maybe Brown. He already has a few safeties that he really likes and a few to look at still. I am having him try to look at the easier admits that have EA first and then hopefully he falls in love with one of them. I think if he gets into one of these EA schools he can then just pursue the schools that are harder to get into. He is pretty level headed and not overly obsessed about the whole thing. I think his applications will be very strong in every area except GPA so I don’t want to discourage him from applying to any school he wants to… including Ivy’s… although so far the Ivy’s haven’t interested him much. He knows the type of school he wants so that does make it a little easier. He is actually going next semester to a very prestigious school in Vermont. Most kids who get accepted there matriculate to the Ivy’s. This made me think he may be a stronger applicant than it appears. We will see… looking forward to following how your S does. I think it will be positive for him too.</p>
<p>I’ll be following your S too, 5boys! </p>
<p>I think there is no harm applying to Ivies and some of the reachier LACs given your S’s situation.</p>
<p>With my S, he truly picked the LACs that he thought would fit him best, and wasn’t interested in the ivys/similar schools for whatever reason (we did visit the ivy he was legacy at and also Cornell, and it just wasn’t for him).</p>
<p>Hopefully, the schools that he is applying to will also believe that he is a good fit after considering his application and interviews at those schools.</p>
<p>GKM…I just went back through some of the old threads on the 3.6 applying to top 20. I did see where we had conversed before about our boys and that they were looking at the same schools. I never heard back about how your visits went. I know you did a long week with a lot of schools to see. My S and I are leaving the last week of January to go to his new school in Vermont. We will visit a few schools that week before he has to arrive, but in Tennessee.I’m really afraid to drive around in the snow because I am form CA and have never driven in bad weather
So… we will visit some schools on his Spring Break in March… I’m not quite sure how it will all come together but I’m assuming you just mapquest it and hope for the best. Unfortunately a lot of the schools he wants to visit are also on their Spring Break, so he won’t be able to visit a lot of the ones on his list. I want him to have a firm list by this summer… I think waiting till Fall Senior year to visit schools is a mistake. If we have to make one trip out to Maine to see the fab 3 we will. I’m one that thinks interviewing and seeing the school are VERY important… especially with LAC’s. I could see my S crossing some off the list and being absolutely excited about others, for no apparent reason other than teen weirdness, when we visited schools up in the PNW last year.</p>
<p>Yes, my S is also picking schools based on fit… he could care less about the “name” of the school. He really wants small discussion based classes with an unassuming, laid back but intellectual student body. It would also need to embrace his love of the outdoors… Eagle Scout, Rescue Scuba Diver, mountain search and rescue, Mountaineer/backpacker etc… Nature= happiness for my S. He also does not want academics to monopolize all of his waking hours. He loves academics and can discuss ideas all night with the best of them but he also likes to be involved with everything. I know there is the right school out there for him.</p>
<p>SLUMOM, thanks for the Syracuse suggestion.</p>
<p>5boys – a few weekends ago, S2 was on an Outward Bound-type weekend for the EPIIC program at Tufts. This year’s focus is “Our Nuclear World.” Spent the weekend hiking in the mountains in NH, doing outdoor team rescues, and then the kids would all go to hear the weekend’s speaker, who talked about nuclear weapons, politics and disarmament. Got to sit with the speaker at dinner and chat. He was one happy camper! It’s a nice balance to the piles of reading material the class is assigned, though the kids form study groups to outline and go over the readings so it’s more manageable.</p>
<p>S2 was definitely heavy on the academics in HS, mainly because he wanted to be sure that if he didn’t get IB credit, he’d get something for the AP scores in the corresponding course. The stress was pretty horrific senior year. </p>
<p>5boys – S was waitlisted at Carleton and Bowdoin. Was not interested in Ivies, though one football coach wanted him to apply.</p>
<p>Counting down… my S would think he had died and gone to heaven in that class!!! He is have way tempted to apply to West Point or the Coast Guard Academy but really just wants a regular college experience. I actually think he has little chance at Bowdoin or Carleton but he has so many other schools that are less selective that he likes… so I’m not too worried about it. He likes Colby just as much as Bowdoin and I think he has a really good chance there… based on our schools naviance. Do you think he should take a look at Tufts???</p>
<p>5boys, what does your S want to study? If you are headed to see schools in Maine, can’t hurt to check out Tufts, Brandeis, Northeastern…I have a friend with a S at Colby and he has had an amazing experience there. S2 also visited Colby, but thought it was too rural for him.</p>
<p>Have you looked at Colorado College? We know someone who’s there and we hear all about her skiing, hiking, skydiving, etc. adventures. It’s one course at a time, but classes are small and the kids seem close-knit. They also have EA.</p>
<p>Would he consider Deep Springs?</p>
<p>5boys, the college tour went very well–when you do it, instead of mapquest I highly suggest a good GPS system–we rented ours and it got us everywhere in a very orderly manner (with a few strange routes, but we got there nonetheless, and mostly on time).</p>
<p>Our tour helped S knock several schools off his list and helped cement others. His interviews went fairly well…although it was so interesting to see him come out of the interviews…some he was so excited and happy, and one or two I could tell he just didn’t connect with the interviewer. It will be interesting to see how that factors into the admission decisions.</p>
<p>We visited 12 schools in all, 7 of which S is applying to. Very helpful.</p>
<p>dignified1, I used to think the same way about GPA versus class rank, but have changed my view recently. Here is why I think a high GPA is paramount regardless of class rank in super-elite college admissions. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Colleges list in their CDS what are important in their admissions, class rank and GPA are in that list, and iirc, all elite colleges list GPA as most important relative to other factors.</p></li>
<li><p>Elite colleges assume their classes are harder than whatever your high school can offer; therefore, unless you can get A’s in your high school, you are not ready to take on the harder classes at their colleges.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I think #2 is the key here. Furthermore, you hear more about the magic top 10% rank mostly because that’s what CDS asks for and what USNWR tracks. If you look carefully at the CDS, very few colleges report incoming class GPA information. In reality, most unhooked HYPS students are in the top 1-2% of their class. These colleges have more than enough 4.0-high-stats and interesting applicants for them to reach down to the 3.6s.</p>
<p>CountingDown… My S wants to major in Philosophy or Religion and then go on to med school to become a rural ER Dr. Colorado College has actually been high on his list for quite a while now. They don’t let you interview till you Senior year so we are waiting to visit till next year. I think he will definitely need to sit in on a few classes to see if the block plan is for him. I actually think it would be ideal for him. He would love to immerse himself in one subject and then have 4 1/2 days off every month to do what he wants in the outdoors. It looks pretty likely for him acceptance wise too. He did look at Deer Springs for a minute but ruled it out for the same reason he crossed out the military schools… he really wants a normal college esperience i.e. plenty of girls:-)). He hasn’t seemed interested in any of the Boston schools because is looking for a school that is close to the mountains and has a great outdoor club. He could care less about city life. </p>
<p>GKM… Thanks so much for the tip on the GPS. Will get one of those for sure. I’m just having a little trouble with planning the route… as which to see first, second etc. Like I said I am not familiar with the East and how to get around there. Here is our plan, maybe you can shed some insight on how do do it. Start in Vermont… visit Midd, then he wants to see Brown, Hamilton, Vassar, Wesleyan, St. Lawrence,maybe Colgate. We will come back next Fall and visit the 3 Maine schools since they are out for Spring Break when my S is. What do you think would make the most sense direction wise? I wasn’t aware that you could interview as a Junior?? I guess I should have my S go ahead and schedule interviews at these schools?</p>
<p>Direction-wise, it probably makes more sense to visit Wesleyan after Brown (Connecticut separates Rhode Island from New York), then Vassar. Hamilton (Clinton, NY), I believe is further north and to the west of Vassar. Another alternative might be to visit Colgate and Hamilton after Middlebury and then go from west to east with the rest of the schools.</p>
<p>Get this map [Hedberg</a> Maps, Inc. - Custom College, City, Regional and Specialty Maps](<a href=“http://www.hedbergmaps.com/store/catalog/10013]Hedberg”>http://www.hedbergmaps.com/store/catalog/10013) to plan your trip. It it s best! Tons of info on the front and back! Look at the sample parts of the map under the picture on the left.</p>
<p>Brown, Hamilton, Vassar, Wesleyan, St. Lawrence,maybe Colgate. </p>
<p>Will you be flying into Burlington and renting a car? Burlington might not be the easiest or cheapest way to go. Another suggestion (if you plan to fly/rent): Start with Colgate and/or Hamilton (both are close to Syracuse). Then head up north to Saint Lawrence and across Lake Champlain to Middlebury. From there head to Brown, Wesleyan and Vassar in that order. Vassar puts you near the three NYC airports for the flight home.</p>
<p>This is a tricky set of schools to plan a route for, because they are spaced so far apart, but if I were you I would fly into and out of NYC, route the trip as a big circle, and do the colleges in this order: Vassar, Hamilton, Colgate, St. Lawrence, Middlebury, Brown, Wesleyan.</p>
<p>(If you’re going to see Hamilton, you might as well see Colgate; they’re only a half-hour apart, by far the closest two schools on your list.)</p>
<p>EDIT: On second thought, you might save a little mileage by flying in and out of Boston instead. Do the schools in the same order, but start with Brown and hop over from Wesleyan to Vassar.</p>
<p>This is an interesting thread, in part because of the diverse interpretation one can put on what a 3.3 to 3.6 GPA actually means. We have parents of looking at schools like Ursinus, Clark, Susquehanna and others looking at places such as Vassar, Wesleyan and Colgate. As they should be. What constitutes a 3.3 to 3.6 GPA embraces a wide variety of academic achievers. </p>
<p>For example, take one student who takes a total of 20 core classes, all at the college prep level. This students achieves an 80 in 5 courses, an 85 in 5 others, a 90 in 5 more and a 95 in the remaining 5 courses. Tally it up and you get an 87.5 GPA (or 3.3). A classmate takes the same 20 core courses, but all at the honors level. Adding 5 points for weighting, grades of 85,90,95 and 100 (in 5 classes each) would give that student a weighted GPA of 92.5 (about a 3.6). A third student might have somewhat worse unweighted grades than the first student, but with 4 or 5 APs, might end up with a 3.6 or better. </p>
<p>Of course results may vary depending upon the systems used by both the student’s high school and prospective colleges in determining GPA. That’s why GPA without context is not particularly useful, but viewed in combination with rigor of coursework, standardized test scores and rank (if provided) you can see why one kid with a 3.5 GPA might be looking at Drew, while another is not overreaching to apply to Brown.</p>
<p>You all know this already, but I thought it might be worth clarifying (or maybe I’m muddying the waters further) for any new CC posters/readers who dropped by this thread and were surprised to see schools like Hamilton, Tufts and Colby being bandied about.</p>
<p>Hi,
My S definitely fits the profile for this thread, particularly the high score/lower GPA part. We live in So Cal, so most of the Chicago, Middlebury, Indiana stuff isn’t really on our radar. The UC’s, other than the lower tier ones in icky locations, are almost unattainable under 3.8. Anyone have recommendations for mid-sized schools for which we may qualify for merit aid or some other help with a 3.5 and 2120 SAT, preferably in an area that’s not too rural?</p>