<p>digdig–that is just weird. I can’t imagine that a call like that could possibly increase yield. What undecided kid is going to say, “gee, I guess I’ll go with the college that called me up to ask when my check was coming”?</p>
<p>Right now DD is deciding between Lehigh and RPI, for arch. WUSTL has stronger arch program than Lehigh, nerdier atmosphere(?). But wider academic offerings than RPI. And a stronger Jewish community than either RPI or Lehigh. So if DD gets admitted off the WL, we would want to consider it, but given the slim odds of an admission off the WL, its not uppermost in our minds right now.</p>
<p>gloworm…FYI WUSTL waived the app fee for my son …again, bugs me a little, since no FA need here so why not save on this for hundreds of students and use the money for more meaningful purposes. I have to say the school that has impressed me the most with showing “love” yet efficient use of resources is RIT–great merit aid, but the mailings have been efficient and they have encouraged q/a with online chats instead of free trips, too many brochures, and zillions of calls from workstudy kids (OSU…calls at least 3 times a week). OSU really killed all chance by combining the acceptance form with a very exciting opportunity (not) for S to buy season football tickets. WUSTL is at the absolute bottom of 8 schools but OSU is a close number 7. We will send the please remove us from your list on Monday.</p>
<p>S1 just received a full-ride offer to UMass Amherst Commonwealth College! The finaid director personally called S1 and told him that he is one of the top 5 NMF students to receive this offer. When I first heard of the competitive NMF full-ride scholarship, I was not hopeful S1 would get it because of his GPA. We are very happy with the surprise. This makes paying $$$ at his preferred private a bit harder to justify.</p>
<p>Just a quick note…we are going through the same struggle of paying $$ for private to 20 or very generous offer at less prestigious public with good program in S’s area of interest…tough decision but I am leaning toward the private. I went to lousy public HS but really bloomed in a rigorous private college…I have a friend who’s S went to UVA (still very good) but turned down CalTech because of cost…having some serious regrets now because kid not stimulated enough in his area of interest…even a good school like UVA just the size and the less personal attention isn’t ideal for some kids…</p>
<p>PCP, congrats~as often as I say to D that it isn’t about the money, a full ride would definitely throw a monkey wrench into the decision-making here.</p>
<p>I wonder about how this will play out for us, too. We’ve paid 100% for D1, and are ready to for D2, and she knows that. But she’s no dummy and will know that if she has public options and scholarship offers, it will affect us. I’m not looking forward to that choice next year. It will be hard for her (and I know we’ll feel some temptations financially).</p>
<p>I’m sure everyone’s glanced at the “I went to a 3rd tier school, now 4 years later” thread. The positive remarks by everyone about making value for yourself, not having debt, etc., etc., make paying for private education seem like an idiotic waste of money. Then there’s the “How do I get my D to consider a state school?” thread, where much of the discussion (and I admit I contributed) is about our doubts about many aspects of the public (especially large public) school experience. It takes a strong person to get past some of the pitfalls (which could be said about any school, anywhere, I know).</p>
<p>I’m at a COMPLETE loss. I value the private education I received so much. I am grateful my parents could pay for it, and I cry for the kids who don’t have choices because of money. My H put himself entirely through a public education and bled dry doing it - but he doesn’t regret it a bit and is pleased his kids can have the same education without killing themselves working 40 hours a week. But we’ve heard amazing stories about people who’ve made a public education work beyond anyone’s imagination.</p>
<p>This is a terribly personal decision, because the money involved is impossible to understand. Someone can actually say that an education was “worth” $200,000? How? Someone can say that it’s unthinkable for a college grad to start life with loan payments they probably can’t afford? Really, who knows? It’s all very scary.</p>
<p>But we believe in education, and this is how it’s done in this country - every man or woman for him/herself. We all know that kids who are unhappy and put off by a school - no matter what it is, where it is, how it is - can’t follow through, can’t make it work. So questions of financial worth often go through the window.</p>
<p>PCP, I’m hoping your S is proud he was thought so highly of. I hope he has a good sense of what he wants and where he’ll be happiest, and what the give and take will be, financially or otherwise. I’m sure he will come out very well, no matter what.</p>
<p>I don’t know what that program at UMass is, and I forget your son’s field. I will remark that if it’s in one of their contained, high-intensity programs, he should only go if he’s really dedicated to it. My nephew entered their intensive Computer Science program a few years ago and had to drop out after a very painful semester, feeling completely suffocated by the career focus and singularity of the students and faculty. He felt he had no space to consider anything in his life other than what they were proscribing. In addition, he couldn’t tolerate the big public school party atmosphere. </p>
<p>He took a break and now is very happy commuting there instead, and majoring in a completely different subject.</p>
<p>Best wishes to you, and thank you for sharing your experience with us.</p>
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<p>I’ve had similar thoughts on this topic. The difference in the level of stimulation can be quite substantial even among top tier colleges. Some people would dispute the existence of meaningful difference between any of the top 20 or so schools, but as in the example you gave, substantial differences do exist.</p>
<p>I suppose if a student is self-propelled and proactive, then one can argue that as long as the college resources are more than what the student can consume, the level of stimulation should be sufficient. However, I believe stimulations from peers are just as important as stimulations from the teaching staff and classroom experience. All top schools have many bright and dynamic kids, but some just have much higher concentration of these kids.</p>
<p>This big question is can you put a price tag on this difference, and if so, will you pay for it?</p>
<p>EmmyBet, thanks for your post. S1 is interested in Biology and specifically Genetics.</p>
<p>Could some of you comment on the difference between a private school education and a private one? In my state (SC), less than 10% of funding comes from the state and I think there are many other states similarly funded. </p>
<p>And size varies so much. My s’s public college has 10,000 students including graduate school. So size isn’t the only issue. I went to a very large California public (back in the day when kids with this tread’s GPA could get into UCB and UCLA). </p>
<p>Help me understand the difference. I’m now looking for my d, who will be lucky to end at 3.3 so her needs are very different from her brother’s. What might a smaller, private give her?</p>
<p>What I’ve noticed is that the “price tag” is more of a question of philosophy. None of us really wants to buy another house to pay for college, or even 2-3 cars. But many of us “buy in” because we believe in what it offers, and that’s a personal choice. Some people I know pay for years and years of private school for their kids, all the way up. Maybe they want parochial education, or “just the best there is” or whatever other benefit. I personally wouldn’t have done that except in an extreme circumstance, but I - personally again - will allow my kids to go to a private college or university, even hope they will. I don’t expect that of other people.</p>
<p>I met someone at my college reunion - I may have told this story before, so forgive me - who went to a small tier-3 LAC, transferred to a smallish elite college within a university, then went to HYPMS for a Master’s, finishing at a state flagship for a PhD. He’s taught at several other places, so he’s definitely seen it ALL. </p>
<p>I asked him what was his last word in comparing the experiences. He said you could count on the excellence of faculty and programs at the more elite schools, and your peers were reliably at a high caliber of ability and cared about their work. At the other schools, you could find great teachers and great peers, but you had to look. Percentages were lower at the LAC, so it was harder for him to make it work. At the big state U, once you found your niche the experience could be equal to at any other school. You just had to be willing to put aside the parts of the place that didn’t mesh with your needs or standards.</p>
<p>I confess I have a bit of an “eating whipped cream” fantasy about college - it’s the one time in your life when you can be where you want to be, do what you want to do, within a charmed group of people. My kids went through plenty of compromising and putting up with stuff that made their skin crawl in public schools growing up; college is where they get to be somewhere that feels “just right.” Maybe if they get that feeling there, they can find ways to replicate it somehow in other parts of their life for years to come. There’s nothing like the feeling in college when you know you love where you are and you can’t wait to do what’s coming next. Even the stress and the heartbreak feel so worth it.</p>
<p>Kids don’t always get their “dream school,” of course, but my other solid feeling in this is that they love everywhere they apply and let the chips fall. If your son, or anyone’s kid, has a really great feeling about a school, I say go for it. A year from now I might be saying my D2 has chosen a tier-3 or a public U (maybe not even the ranked flagship). It’ll be her gut that we go with. And a kid can make it work anywhere.</p>
<p>A postscript to my nephew’s story: Most of his problem initially was the contained, constricted experience of the specialized program. If he’d had a chance to be out within the university finding HIS people, HIS niche, it definitely would have gone better for him. His gut also always was to be a commuter. That’s his personality, needs his downtime and to be grounded differently. He also couldn’t leave the area completely because he was in a working music group and didn’t want to crash that.</p>
<p>stillnadine: Many students thrive at small private colleges because of the closeness with professors and peers, and the attention and nurturing they receive. Many people here can give you testimonials about that (and I’m sure they will!).</p>
<p>Have her visit a few, ones that are close to you, maybe that she wouldn’t be applying to, so she can get a good feeling about what being on one of those campuses is like. I grew up assuming I would go to an intense quirky college (maybe even Reed or something) but when I visited my first one I ran screaming because no matter how wonderful everything was it was TOO small and confining for me. But other people feel the exact opposite and are completely overwhelmed or turned off by some other aspect of schools they visit - size, location, focus on sports, etc.</p>
<p>People I know who went to small LACs where they were happy felt they got everything they needed. Small schools are not limited in opportunities, but the scale is different, and they tend to be in quieter, more isolated locations.</p>
<p>I’m bumping this thread - I guess all of us jr parents will be “the gang” from now on. What an amazing thought - when I first started on CC she was a sophomore, so far from being the one that was actually in the process. Please all of you “older” folks stay on and tell us your stories, and “younger” ones please chime in with questions.</p>
<p>We have a few “B+” threads going - and I can understand how we split fom just B+ to a 3.0-3.3 and a 3.3-3.6. Many of us hang on both, because our kids either waver above/below a 3.3 or have test scores and other factors that bump them higher or lower than their GPA as actual college candidates. And there are other factors such as grade weighting, whether the classes are academics or electives, what kind of HS it is, what their aspirations are, etc. So being on these threads seem to be based on how you define yourself. Welcome to anyone who’s considering joining in - it’s an amazingly helpful place during a very confusing process.</p>
<p>I’m bumping the 3.3-3.6 thread because this is really about where my kid’s at. She’s clung the past 2 years to about a 3.5, but bolstered immensely by arts classes, so any school that takes those out would have seen way closer to a 3.3 or even less. She’s turning a few more Bs into As now, and C’s seem finally not even a glimmer on the horizon. I’m suspecting she’ll hold a 3.6 for her apps, can’t get much higher because of the rough 9th and 10th grade. Hurray for upward trends!</p>
<p>She’s not a great test-taker, however, so GPA will have to be her most important academic stat (she’s got many test-optional schools on her list). But she left this month’s ACT feeling the best she ever has - whatever the score, she’s overcome a lot of the test anxiety that plagued her in the past. She’s grown up a lot, and it’s taken most of HS to accomplish that. I think ultimately her test scores will be about par with her grades, and that’s fine. She’s an active, involved kid with a lot of interests, good teacher recs, and generally an interesting person. Not a future Nobel Prize winner, but we all know here that there are great schools for these truly great kids.</p>
<p>I hope we can all continue to support each other and help each other with our experience, as this year progresses. Right now I’m finding it kind of exciting. I did it 4 years ago with a very different older D, and enjoyed seeing how much she grew and changed, more than I’d ever imagined. I think it will be just as wonderful with this one, even with the day-to-day stress.</p>
<p>Best wishes to everyone!</p>
<p>Emmybet- my d also straddles the 3.0-3.3 and 3.3-3.6 threads depending on the quarter and how you compute gpa. If you take out electives and don’t weight her gpa is in the former , weighted and with electives it is much higher. At any rate, I feel more comfortable on these threads given her personality and the type of schools she is interested in. I am looking forward to the mutual support overthe next 12 months!</p>
<p>I’ve wondered if at some point as the groups evolve if some of the 3.+ threads might merge. But like it or not, in this goofy game 3.0-3.3 does correlate to a certain group of schools, and 3.3-3.6 to a slightly different one, so probably the 2 threads will continue as very helpful in their own way. Also, the subject of the 3.+ student is so broad that these threads would be huge if they weren’t split in some way. We could start asking questions on more subject oriented threads (like the current one about Western schools for the 3.+ student). For general support, I imagine I’ll keep hanging out on both (especially when we start getting scores back … eek …).</p>
<p>What I do understand - and why I bumped this thread - is that the idea of a match/reach is very different under or over a 3.4. My D can consider schools like Bard or Sarah Lawrence matches (I don’t say guarantees), and can reach for Vassar. We wouldn’t feel like that if she weren’t now solidly over 3.5, and won’t if she dips again. It’s sad that a couple of tenths of a point turn you into a “different” person, but I know on this thread we get frustrated when people come in with a 3.7 or 3.8 (which usually means a weighted 4.0) and have very different matches, often our kids’ reaches. How many times have we had to say, “Excuse me, but please don’t talk about how easy it was for you to get into XYZ”, on either of these threads? You do have to have thoughtful considerations under 3.6, and again under 3.3.</p>
<p>I imagine we’ll continue a thread among parents to talk about this group’s experiences applying to “top” schools, something like the “3.6 trying for top 20” thread. If you have a 3.5 or higher, you might as well try for quite reachy schools if you want them. But it’s easier for us to talk about that with other parents whose kids aren’t the stereotypical CCer.</p>
<p>My D, who is pursuing theater, might even go for Northwestern. It would be a mega-reach for her, way harder than Vassar, which is reachy enough. But as many people have said, if you fit in the bottom 25% of accepted students, that means kids like you have been accepted there. She doesn’t have any boffo hooks, but if she feels confident about giving it a try, I’ll support her. </p>
<p>What sets this group apart is the wide range of schools where they fit the profile. They’re likely to be less frustrated at a state school or a less competitive college than a 4.0 kid - naturally by having gotten Bs they maybe aren’t quite as snappy, or mature, or driven, or unidimensional, or whatever of the million characteristics that go into why someone gets all As and goes to schools designed for students who already know how to achieve at the highest levels. So these kids are going to need to look maybe harder at the enormous spectrum of colleges out there, the whole spectrum, including the top schools, to find one that meets their needs. I don’t want to stereotype anyone - I hope people can see that I’m saying this with care and a ton of confidence that college will be an amazing experience for these kids of ours.</p>
<p>What’s definitely come from these 3.+ threads is that there are SO many schools and SO many experiences that we can help each other learn about, instead of feeling around in the dark. Thank you in advance.</p>
<p>Interesting points, EmmyBet. Of course the continuity between 3.0-3.3 and 3.3-3.6 becomes very apparent when you get a kid (like ours) who starts senior year in one group and finishes in the other, or who winds up choosing one of his “3.0-3.3” schools even though he got into one of his “3.3-3.6” schools. </p>
<p>The whole process of trying to find one’s correct bucket here reminds me of what Richard Dawkins calls “the tyranny of the discontinuous mind.” We have to draw lines to communicate, but the lines are artificial and do not mark points of real difference. Very simply, you could see the CC parent community as comprising two groups: “parents of credible Ivy candidates” and “the rest of us.” Zoom in closer, and we could easily have threads broken down by increments of .2 or even .1. </p>
<p>For me, and I think for many of us, the point is finding the people I’m comfortable with as much as finding the people whose kids’ stats are most similar to my kid’s. But as it turns out, there’s considerable overlap between the two. I think this is because of the way family personalities and value systems affect a kid’s academic performance. My wife and I are not lazy people, but neither are we driven, competitive people. We expect our son to do well in school because we know he’s smart enough to do well with a modicum of effort, but we’ve never asked him to be an academic superstar unless that’s what he gets his happiness from (which it isn’t). If we had been the kind of parents who give their kid hell for anything less than an A, I’m sure his GPA would be somewhat higher. But for better or worse, that’s not who we are. I feel most comfortable talking with people who seem to share our attitude and values–and those people, although they are certainly present on the bigger “class of 20xx” threads, are very easy to find in the “3.x” threads.</p>
<p>Nightchef- well put!</p>
<p>I love that: “3.x”! Yup, that’s us!</p>
<p>I hope I’m expressing myself properly - I don’t have any intention of splitting hairs over GPAs. I think things do end up being confusing and we all end up wondering about values and what means what for our individual selves, and talking to each other helps us figure things out. </p>
<p>This is a place where we can wonder. That’s my point, too, in that it’s not just a question of measuring up but of weighing lots of important factors. Much of what I read is so linear - do this, and you’ll get that, strive for the “best” and you’ll “be” the “best”: what the heck does any of that mean? </p>
<p>There are lots of 3.x type kids. Mine has always had to strive for her own sense of meaning, so she has to understand what she’s striving for and whether it matters to her. Sometimes that takes a while, and the “goodies” pass her by in the meantime. She used to run away before letting anyone put her in a box, but luckily one thing she’s learned in the past few years is how to hold her head up and say “I’m ME.”</p>
<p>Tonight she has her first “real” theater audition, not for school or anyone she’s ever met. I told her what someone said on CC: don’t be afraid - if you love to perform, you’re getting a chance to perform! She loved that and will keep it in mind. We’ve met people here who have told wonderful stories and given amazing advice. </p>
<p>I’m finding the term “rising senior” gives all of us a pretty special feeling!</p>
<p>Hi, all, just checking in officially; I’ve been lurking for awhile! My S with a 3.5 unweighted (ahem, with his As in Theater thrown in) puts us firmly in this thread.</p>
<p>Rising Senior! Wow. They are!!</p>
<p>I’m checking in here too. My junior D has a 3.45 although it includes a few electives and she too has straddled this and the 3.0-3.3 thread. Now that decisions have largely been made for the current seniors, we’re up! I do have a current college freshman so have been through this once already but it’s amazing how different siblings can be. I look forward to sharing the next year with everyone!</p>
<p>WOW, I just read this post and I feel so much better!!!. I am sending my D off to college in the fall - after going through the application/scholarship process I became very worried about my freshman S. My D breezed through the process and received several scholarships - I was really worried that my A/B son would never be accepted to college on his current path. I admit, I nag, he ignores…life goes on. </p>
<p>He was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes in January, has manged to make the varsity golf team, is very happy and adjusting incredibly well adding 4 injections a day to his life. This forum was a little slap on the side of my head, making me realize my 2 are very different and S will take the path that suits his personality and strengths (studying not being one of them). </p>
<p>S gets mostly B’s and the occasional A…rarely studies. I am encouraged that there is a college for him in the future. </p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>