The 4th Best Business School

[sakky]

<p>

Contrast that vs. Haas where the variance is too significant for it to be truly considered a solid Top 10 school. Look, I know I keep busting Haas’ balls – its a decent b-school. It’s just not an “elite” one. An “elite” b-school doesn’t get ranked no. 31.

</p>

<p>I’ve always had serious problems with the FT ranking. Come on - to rank LBS (tied) for #1 in the world, and to have a 3-year ranking higher than Harvard or Stanford? Really? Are there really lots of people turning down Harvard or Stanford for LBS?</p>

<p>In any case, regarding US schools, I think we can say that Haas is a top 10 B-school, even if perhaps just barely. Yale, at this time, is perhaps not, although it can certainly become one in the (near) future. </p>

<p>On the other hand, if there is any school in the top 10 that I would argue is likely to lose that status, it is probably Duke, as gellino alluded to. At least Berkeley (and Yale) are on the move and continue to improve.</p>

[pnb2002]

<p>Although I don’t agree with all of RML’s posts, I would never trust a ranking that put INSEAD/Columbia ahead of Stanford.</p>

[gellino]

<p>

The facts however would tell that Berkeley Haas is slightly a superior school to Tuck.

</p>

<p>What facts? I already said that acceptance and yield rates are not comparable for private vs public schools as cost differences are drawing a different base. Having more applications does not mean that’s a better program; not to mention that Berkeley has a larger class. GMAT is not really a differentiator among business schools and while the GMAT range may be 20 points on the bottom end, the average GMAT of the two schools is within one point, with Harvard, Wharton, Tuck, UChicago, Wharton, Columbia all within seven points of each other.</p>

<p>

And, unlike you, I have not heard of Dartmouth up until I was applying to US schools.

</p>

<p>You’re not from this country, though, so of course you are going to have heard of fewer schools; especially smaller ones. I notice in your posting of salary info that you neglect to post the more important stat of post-MBA salary to compare the schools. </p>

<p>You don’t sound like you’ve graduated from college yet or at least progressed far enough in your career to see where your brightest peers apply and attend b-school and are relying on USNWR rankings, which are more academic and less relevant measures for evaluating business schools. I mean don’t take my word for it, conduct a poll on here and see how many think Berkeley-Haas is regarded as a better school than Dartmouth-Tuck. From everything I have seen in my career, I can’t imagine it’s going to be a majority; especially of people from the U.S.</p>

[RML]

<p>gellino,</p>

<p>What are you talking about? Already 39% of Haas’ students come form outside of the US and are paying the full fees. Only about less than 18% of Haas’ full-time MBA students are from California and California is such a LARGE state. It’s size, economy and population alone is bigger than most countries around the world. You cannot disregard that fact. </p>

<p>

I notice in your posting of salary info that you neglect to post the more important stat of post-MBA salary to compare the schools.

</p>

<p>I got tired. Regardless, it’s useless because the records would show that they have about the same post-MBA salaries.</p>

<p>

I mean don’t take my word for it, conduct a poll on here and see how many think Berkeley-Haas is regarded as a better school than Dartmouth-Tuck. From everything I have seen in my career, I can’t imagine it’s going to be a majority; especially of people from the U.S.

</p>

<p>I suspect that to be true. Check the number of applicants of both schools. You’d see that Haas has more applicants than Tuck has. If what you’ve said is true, then Tuck would have many more applicants than Haas would. </p>

<p>Wait, let me help you with that. Here’s the data again:</p>

<p>Total number of applicants:
Haas - 3,779
Tuck -2,898</p>

[gellino]

<p>

Wait, let me help you with that. Here’s the data again:</p>

<p>Total number of applicants:
Haas - 3,779
Tuck -2,898

</p>

<p>Since when is number of applicants related to how good a school is? Columbia has more apps than Stanford. NYU has more apps than UChicago. Does that make them better schools? Tuck is the smallest MBA program of the top schools, so of course it’s going to have the fewest applicants. Plus, being rural, Tuck has a more self-selective applicant pool and is probably disproportionately hurt in sheer quantity of applications because its environment is less broadly appealing in comparison to a suburban or urban one, particularly for international students but that has nothing to do with the quality of the program or what grads go on to do.

I got tired. Regardless, it’s useless because the records would show that they have about the same post-MBA salaries.

</p>

<p>I don’t think so. There was link on one of these threads recently showing some order of Harvard, Wharton, Columbia, Stanford, Tuck in the top five in post-MBA salary depending on the time period measured. I don’t remember how much further down the list Cal/Berkeley was but don’t think it was one of the next few.</p>

<p>Another factor distiguishing schools as I said before is the % going into highly sought after, investment decision-making jobs (PE, VC, HF, IM). On this basis, Tuck is at 15% vs Haas at 9.1%. Meanwhile, on the lesser desirable job category (marketing) Tuck is at 9% vs Haas at 25.3%.</p>

[gellino]

<p>^This was the article I was referring to:</p>

<p>[MBA</a> Pay Through the Years](<a href=“http://bwnt.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/mba_pay_2009/index.asp?sortCol=starting_pay&sortOrder=2&pageNum=1&resultNum=100]MBA”>http://bwnt.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/mba_pay_2009/index.asp?sortCol=starting_pay&sortOrder=2&pageNum=1&resultNum=100)</p>

<p>For avg starting salary, Tuck is tied for #2 with Harvard at $134,000, while Berkeley is #9 at $112,000.</p>

[RML]

<p>Most of the top b-schools are in the east coast. with the exception of stanford, kellogg and chicago, the rest of the best schools in the midwest and west coast receive few applicants. prestige determines the number of applicants. maybe not all the time, but most of the time. all the best b-schools have applicants numbering to 5 thousand and above. </p>

<p>haas, yale and tuck are all small b-schools. haas accommodates 250 students per year only. that’s the same number both yale and tuck are targeting every year as well. however, haas has about 1,000 more applicants than either school. that can be contributed to haas popularity/prestige and quality. </p>

<p>in terms of selectivity, haas has 12% admission rate whilst tuck has 16% and yale has 14%.</p>

<p>you can also check that the quality of haas intakes is substantially better. the average pre-mba salaries of entering haas students are 72k. in contrast, its only 62k for tuck and 60k for yale. </p>

<p>the post mba salary for haas is bigger than yale but about the same as tuck. </p>

<p>Haas
Median base salary for most recent graduates: $ 110,000
Mean signing bonus for most recent graduates: $ 22,737
Median signing bonus for most recent graduates: $ 20,000
Mean other guaranteed compensation for most recent graduates: $ 29,662
Median other guaranteed compensation for most recent graduates: $ 18,000 </p>

<p>Tuck
Median base salary for most recent graduates: $ 110,000
Mean signing bonus for most recent graduates: $ 26,220
Median signing bonus for most recent graduates: $ 20,000
Mean other guaranteed compensation for most recent graduates: $ 31,308
Median other guaranteed compensation for most recent graduates: $ 20,000</p>

<p>To sum it all up, Berkeley-Haas is slightly superior to Dartmouth-Tuck. I’m not however discounting the fact that Tuck is in a better position when it comes to sending graduates to PE, VC, HF, IM (heck tuck may be even better than stanford on that regard), but that alone does not determine the quality of the MBA program. there are other factors to consider too, and in those factors, Haas is superior to Tuck. Again, overall, Haas is slightly superior to Tuck.</p>

[the_prestige]

<p>

Although I don’t agree with all of RML’s posts, I would never trust a ranking that put INSEAD/Columbia ahead of Stanford.

</p>

<p>Perhaps not Columbia, but INSEAD, while it doesn’t have the immediate name recognition to your layman (it certainly does in business circles and growing) has unique selling points.</p>

<p>INSEAD is the no. 1 international b-school, and for those who are seeking a 1-year program, its probably the best program out there – not to mention that it has an alliance with Wharton (i.e. MBA students from both programs can tailor their curriculum to split time between INSEAD and Wharton).</p>

<p>[Wharton/INSEAD</a> Alliance - The Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania](<a href=“http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/campus/alliance/]Wharton/INSEAD”>http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/campus/alliance/)
[INSEAD</a> - Alliance](<a href=“http://www.insead.edu/alliance/]INSEAD”>http://www.insead.edu/alliance/)</p>

<p>Finally, I know from former colleagues of mine who are INSEAD grads, that their alumni career center has a unique career database exchange program with HBS and Stanford GSB. In fact, Harvard and Stanford share their alumni career database with only one international school, INSEAD. If Harvard and Stanford did not view INSEAD (and their MBA grads) not on par, why in the world would they enter into such an agreement?</p>

<p><a href=“https://alumni.gsb.stanford.edu/career/jobboard/partnerschools.html[/url]”>https://alumni.gsb.stanford.edu/career/jobboard/partnerschools.html&lt;/a&gt;
[Reciprocity</a> Agreements - Career Development - Alumni - Harvard Business School](<a href=“http://www.alumni.hbs.edu/careers/co-op_programs.html]Reciprocity”>http://www.alumni.hbs.edu/careers/co-op_programs.html)</p>

<p>So, let’s review, INSEAD has an MBA exchange program with Wharton, and shares career databases with Harvard Business School and Stanford GSB. That’s pretty damn good company.</p>

<p>So if you have aspirations for an international career, I’d say that INSEAD is absolutely one of the top choices which are on par with Stanford. Again, its a different value proposition, but not necessarily better or worse.</p>

[gellino]

<p>

you can also check that the quality of haas intakes is substantially better.

</p>

<p>This is more related to the number of former engineers and UG business majors (which are more likely drawn to Cal) as opposed to the quality of the class.</p>

<p>

To sum it all up, Berkeley-Haas is slightly superior to Dartmouth-Tuck.

</p>

<p>Where do you work? Judging by the applications and acceptances within my BB IB and those of my friends, none of them thought this. The only ones I knew going to Berkeley were getting rejected by the top schools, including Tuck. Your numbers do not match any salary comparisons I have historically seen between the two, including the BW article.</p>

[the_prestige]

<p>Tuck > Haas.</p>

[RML]

<p>

Where do you work? Judging by the applications and acceptances within my BB IB and those of my friends, none of them thought this.

It doesn’t matter where I work now or where I worked before. My work now as well as my work experience aren’t the subject of this discussion. </p>

<p>

The only ones I knew going to Berkeley were getting rejected by the top schools, including Tuck.

I won’t question that. after all, that’s just your personal experience, and no one here for can validate the accuracy of your personal experiences for sure. However, the facts are clear that your personal experience does not jibe with the reality. </p>

<p>Again, here are the numbers. I suggest that you take a look at them more closely this time.</p>

<p>Total number of applicants:
Haas - 3,779 - wins!
Tuck -2,898</p>

<p>Admissions Rate:
Haas - 12% - wins!
Tuck - 15%</p>

<p>Enrollment Yield Rate:
Haas - 54 % - tie
Tuck - 54% </p>

<p>Applicant Pool
Median base salary forgone:
Haas - $72,000 - wins!
Tuck - $62,000</p>

<p>Middle 80% range GMAT scores:
Haas - From: 670 - To: 760 - wins!
Tuck - From: 650 - To: 760 </p>

<p>

Your numbers do not match any salary comparisons I have historically seen between the two, including the BW article.

</p>

<p>That’s probably because Haas wasn’t really that excellent a few years back. But that’s just my theory. Nevertheless, the numbers I posted are accurate. They’re the same numbers that appear on BW. They’re the same numbers that appear of Tuck’s brochures.</p>

[RML]

<p>

Tuck > Haas.

</p>

<p>Prove it. </p>

<p>10char</p>

[the_prestige]

<p>FT’s global MBA ranking:
Ranking:

• Tuck no. 13 - Tuck wins!
• Haas no. 31</p>

<p>Weighted Salary:

• Tuck $156,124 - Tuck wins!
• Haas $137,699</p>

<p>Salary Increase (%):

• Tuck 121% - Tuck wins!
• Haas 80%</p>

<p>**Forbes MBA Ranking:
**- Tuck no. 1 - Tuck wins!

• Haas no. 15</p>

<p>USNWR MBA

• Tuck median GMAT 720 - Tuck wins!
• Haas median GMAT 710</p>

<p>p.s. where did you get that salary information for Dartmouth? $62,000? It’s not listed on the BW website, if so please post a link.</p>

[the_prestige]

<p>

Prove it.

</p>

<p>Let’s compare the average rank of the major MBA rankings: USNWR, BW, FT, Economist, Forbes and WSJ.</p>

<p>Tuck average ranking: 5.4 - Tuck wins!
Haas average ranking: 12</p>

<p>Which fully backs up two earlier statements:</p>

<p>1) Tuck is > Haas
2) Haas is not a Top 10 program</p>

[RML]

<p>the_prestige,</p>

<p>if you really believe that Dartmouth-Tuck is better than Berkeley-Haas, then I would respect that. I’ve seen a few rankings where Tuck outranked Haas. But I’ve also seen rankings that say otherwise. Regardless, they’re on the same tier in my list, and I would understand when some people would prefer it over Haas. But let me correct some of the facts you posted. </p>

<p>

USNWR MBA

• Tuck median GMAT 720 - Tuck wins!
• Haas median GMAT 710

USNews Ranking of Best MBA:
7 - Berkeley-Haas
8 - Dartmouth - Tuck</p>

<p>Average GMAT GMA Scores:
Haas - 714 [Class</a> Profile - Full-time MBA Program: Haas School](<a href=“http://mba.haas.berkeley.edu/community_02.html]Class”>http://mba.haas.berkeley.edu/community_02.html)
Tuck - 712 [About</a> Tuck - Quick Facts](<a href=“http://www.tuck.dartmouth.edu/about/facts.html]About”>http://www.tuck.dartmouth.edu/about/facts.html)</p>

<p>Average Undergraduate GPA:
Haas - 3.54
Tuck - 3.44 </p>

<p>Annual student intake:<br>
Haas - 240 (267 for 2009)
Tuck - 255 (250 for 2009)</p>

<p>Applicants : places:<br>
Haas - 14:1
Tuck - 10:1</p>

<p>Faculty:<br>
Haas - 85 Full-time, 124 Part-time
Tuck - 42 Full-time, 35 Part-time </p>

<p>

where did you get that salary information for Dartmouth? $62,000? It’s not listed on the BW website, if so please post a link.

The data were published on Tuck’s MBA brochure for 2007-2008. If you’ll look it up patiently, I’m sure you will find those numbers. Or, you can ask for Tuck’s printed brochure and they’ll be happy to send you one just like they did to me. </p>

<p>

Haas is not a Top 10 program

Yeah, says you, wildflower and FT. Therefore, it doesn’t say much and shouldn’t be taken seriously.</p>

<p>

Let’s compare the average rank of the major MBA rankings: USNWR, BW, FT, Economist, Forbes and WSJ.

LoL… Why would you sum up rankings of national coverage to that of international coverage. You fail again. LoL…</p>

[the_prestige]

<p>Haas average ranking = 12
Tuck average ranking = 5.4</p>

<p>Sorry, but you fail.</p>

[RML]

<p>Here’s the more acceptable ranking of America’s Top 10 Business Schools:</p>

<p>Harvard - on a league of its own
Wharton / Stanford
Kellogg
Chicago
MIT-Sloan / Columbia
Berkeley-Haas / Dartmouth-Tuck
Michigan-Ross</p>

<p>Runners up: NYU-Stern, Duke-Fuqua, Yale-SOM, Virginia-Darden, Cornell-Johnson and UCLA-Anderson</p>

[ramya_23]

<p>Hey guys please log on to [url=<a href=“http://www.ymatindia.com%5DYMAT%5B/url”>http://www.ymatindia.com]YMAT[/url</a>]. It is a very good site for MBA aspirants.</p>

[storch]

<p>RML;</p>

<p>I have to question Kellogg/Booth over Sloan/Columbia. What do you base that on? Also, not sure Berkeley should be considered equal to Dartmouth. I might have an East Coast bias, but I’d take Sloan/Colombia/Tuck over Kellogg/Booth/Haas, I’d give some serious thought to Yale SOM over Haas as well.</p>

[RML]

<p>

I might have an East Coast bias…

</p>

<p>Well, that clearly explains why. ;)</p>

<p>And, like I said, a lot of people on CC are just like you. However, the stats would show that Haas >>> Yale SOM.</p>