The 4th Best Business School

Graduate School Business School - MBA
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<p>Prestige,
Take it easy man. It’s just one response to your post. Nothing more, nothing less. </p>

<p>Denzara,
Harvard/Stanford have the highest peer and recruiter assessment. Kellogg is right behind them. What you were referring to was ranking from Business Week. I am talking about USN.</p>

<p>Storch,
What I meant was relative order among everyone. Sure, Stanford’s 30K over Kellogg probably does mean Stanford is better. If that’s what you meant by “pretty telling”, fine. Otherwise, I don’t think it’s correct to say NYU is better than Kellogg and Columbia is better than Harvard because of the salary difference.</p>

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<p>Subtract $7,000 from Columbia and NYU because the vast majority of their grads go to NYC and then you have a decent relative pecking order among the US schools.</p>

<p>Stanford
Wharton
Harvard
Columbia
Tuck
MIT
UChicago
UCLA
Yale
Kellogg
NYU
Berkeley
UVA
UMichigan
Duke
Cornell</p>

<p>UCLA and Yale seem a little high to me but I guess their grads do pretty well in getting high paying jobs.</p>

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<p>I certainly don’t think that HBS is lesser than Columbia (as I noted in my first post), or that NYU is better than Kellogg. Actually, I don’t even think Columbia is better than MIT Sloan (they are too close to call IMO). </p>

<p>But… I do think the fact that Kellogg and Berkeley lag 15-30k behind the other top schools is indeed “telling”. Also, the low rankings of Michigan, Duke and Cornell are interesting as well, and are indicative of their low standing relative to true “top ten” schools.</p>

<p>I also think it is interesting that although Yale sends a relatively high % of people into non-profit work, they still do pretty well in this ranking.</p>

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<p>Of course you don’t.</p>

<p>Just admit the painful obvious truth: any ranking or list which would paint Kellogg in a sub-par manner is totally flawed, whereas any ranking that shows Kellogg in the best possible light:</p>

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<p>Is completely and utterly correct. No bias here whatsoever mind you. None at all. Kellogg is a top b-school, I’ve never stated otherwise. It’s just overrated. It’s not a Top 5 school IMO. It’s a Top 10 school.</p>

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<p>totally agree…</p>

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<p>But at some point, you gotta start giving Yale its due. It’s a solid b-school which is generally underrated for what it brings to the table. Meanwhile, what’s Haas’ excuse?</p>

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<p>^ Well, you’ve said Haas is not a top 10 b-school…so that’s its excuse…:)</p>

<p>What’s Kellogg’s excuse? ;)</p>

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<p>^Take out the NYC location bias of NYU grads and Kellogg would be #10.</p>

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<p>^ Aren’t we talking bout storch’s rating?</p>

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<p>Considering location biases duke would be a little bit more competitive with the other schools than it appears.</p>

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<p>But that’s like saying, “if Kellogg was located in NY, then…” or “if Stanford was located in Detroit, then…”</p>

<p>The fact is location is a pretty important factor, and Illinois (or Michigan for that matter – Midwest in general) is a sub optimal location (compared to NY, Boston, Bay Area, etc.)</p>

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<p>Simple. It’s overrated.</p>

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<p>SIMPLE! </p>

<p>The ranking is flawed. The data are unreliable. It’s as simple as that. </p>

<p>What surprises me is why a self-confessed MBA grad of a top-flight business school is so gaga discussing a flawed ranking.</p>

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<p>^I thought this clown had left…</p>

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<p>^ Funny!</p>

<p>If you honestly think I’m a clown, I wonder what would that make you, wildflower. lol</p>

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<p>What makes it flawed? It seems to produce results consistent with general consensus among my peers much closer than any of the other published rankings I’ve seen. </p>

<p>Candidates to B-schools are more concerned about post-MBA salaries and entrance into highly sought after industries than faculty resources and minute differences in acceptance rate and avg GMAT.</p>

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<p>That’s probably true; I was just trying to make sense of an anomoly with NYU and Columbia and hold everything constant since they have such a higher % coming to NYC vs any other school.</p>

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<p>storch’s list is not the most current. Here’s the most updated one:</p>

<p>4 Stanford University GSB U.S.A. 170,340 105 93 ( 99)
1 1 University of Pennsylvania: Wharton U.S.A. 169,784 119 89 ( 98)
4 3 Columbia Business School U.S.A. 164,310 132 92 ( 93)
3 4 Harvard Business School U.S.A. 163,637 115 93 ( 99)
9 10 MIT Sloan School of Management U.S.A. 156,451 121 90 ( 95)
13 12 Dartmouth College: Tuck U.S.A. 156,124 121 94 ( 100)
8 10 Ceibs China 151,641 179 92 ( 94)
14 14 IMD Switzerland 151,624 97 93 ( 100)
11 9 University of Chicago: Booth U.S.A. 150,272 113 94 ( 100)
15 - Indian School of Business India 148,339 160 100 ( 93)
5 6 Insead France / Singapore 147,908 108 89 ( 95)
1 3 London Business School U.K. 146,565 121 90 ( 97)
10 10 New York University: Stern U.S.A. 144,125 133 93 ( 96)
71 65 University of Cape Town GSB South Africa 143,693 72 79 ( 84)
21 21 Northwestern University: Kellogg U.S.A. 142,645 103 96 ( 97)
24 UCLA: Anderson U.S.A. 141,065 110 89 ( 92)
19 15 Yale School of Management U.S.A. 140,803 134 95 ( 98)
31 29 University of California at Berkeley: Haas U.S.A. 137,699 80 91 ( 98)
27 29 University of Virginia: Darden U.S.A. 137,215 119 91 ( 100)
20 19 University of Oxford: Sa</p>

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<p>Sam;</p>

<p>Your list is using the FT’s “weighted salary” which attempts to adjust by industry. I was unsure of their methodology so I used the unadjusted version. My numbers are current however. There is not much difference between the two.</p>

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<p>Either way, how do you know they actually tracked down all alums? If all these were just some self-reported data, it explains how Columbia got higher number than Harvard. Looking at the 2008 employment reports of Columbia, Kellogg and Yale, it seems to me Columbia and Kellogg are pretty comparable while Yale is slightly worse.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www4.gsb.columbia.edu/null?&exclusive=filemgr.download&file_id=481660[/url]”>http://www4.gsb.columbia.edu/null?&exclusive=filemgr.download&file_id=481660&lt;/a&gt;
[Yale</a> School of Management - Salary Information](<a href=“http://mba.yale.edu/careers/employment/salary.shtml]Yale”>http://mba.yale.edu/careers/employment/salary.shtml)
<a href=“http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/career_employer/employment/2008/Kellogg_Employment_Report_2008.pdf[/url]”>http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/career_employer/employment/2008/Kellogg_Employment_Report_2008.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I don’t know that they did, as I’ve said about five times, it is likely this is imperfect…</p>

<p>As we all know, self reported data is generally biased; but there is no reason to believe that this fully explains NU’s relatively poor standing however.</p>