The Academic Performance Cult: Will it ever die?

Parents Corner
1

<p>I graduated from high school in 1992 as salutatorian. I was a National Merit Finalist, and I took Honors/AP classes to the hilt. I vied for admission to Stanford and MIT. I was the equivalent of a typical CCer back then. But compared to today's students on this board, I was Ferris Bueller. No, I didn't grow up on the backroads of Mississippi.</p>

<p>I am disturbed by the rise of the Academic Performance Cult, and the irony is that this mania has bubbled up years after I defected from this cult. I would not have survived undergraduate school if I had continued my intense attitude from high school, because I would have been up all night every night instead of sleeping at least 7 hours per night most nights like I actually did . The same applies for graduate school, where I earned my Master's Degree in electrical engineering.</p>

<p>Some of the threads that highlight the influence of the Academic Performance Cult:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=45089%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=45089&lt;/a>
(Do we have to subject pre-schoolers to the Academic Performance Cult? This is child abuse!)
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=44526%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=44526&lt;/a>
(Come on, even I never thought about the SAT when I was in 8th grade, and I was probably the only student at my high school who knew about the Princeton Review. By the way, preparing for the SAT is MUCH easier than doing well in school.)
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=45299%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=45299&lt;/a>
(Come on, most students would kill to be in this position.)
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=42900%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=42900&lt;/a>
(WHAT? In my day, NOBODY skipped lunch in order to take an extra AP class.)
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=28615%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=28615&lt;/a>
(I took Honors Pre-Calculus during my junior year of high school. We didn't have to do homework during the summer. I aced AP Calculus, earned a 5 on the Calculus AB AP exam, and went on to earn my Master's Degree in electrical engineering. If I could learn Pre-Calculus without having to do summer homework for it, why can't today's students do the same or simply not take the class if they don't belong in it?)</p>

2

<p>There does seem to be such a thing. I would hope that the students who are stiving so hard and making school such a huge part of their lives eventually come to see that light. Happiness is not a perfect SAT or high GPA. While I do believe that each person should do the most with what they have, I also believe in moderation.</p>

<p>The most rewarding things in our lives are our relationships with others. Not some certificate on the wall or honor in front of a bunch of academics. It is VERY important to put first things first.</p>

<p>I am on cc and am actually pleased that my D refuses to read it. Although she does well academically she has a balanced outlook on life.</p>

3

<p>I agree as well. I am exhausted just reading about expectations here on CC, and beyond exhausted watching my current senior plow her way through high school. NO ONE is looking forward to graduation more than I am.</p>

<p>I'm sure most parents, teachers, and certainly students feel it's all just too much. Periodically we'll read about some elite college or other decrying the need many applicants feel to have double-digit APs, astronomic GPAs, world-class ECs, etc. (Didn't MIT's admissions director recently call on high school kids to have more fun along the way? To which I thought, "Um, put your money where your mouth is, lady.") Still, these cultists (like the term) are the kids with the most choices come April, and usually most of the merit money. What's to be done?</p>

4

<p>As long as there are too few slots for an elite or competitive school, there will be people that will do anything it takes to get in. The "enough is enough" limit is different for everyone. </p>

<p>I think we avoided a lot of heartache because of CC. Judging from who is admitted to these elites, and what has to be done leading up to that admission--it was well beyond the scope of my children.They would have been very disappointed. </p>

<p>If we lived in a different area, or traveled in different social circles, then maybe we would also be on that roller coaster. Fortunately the pre-school issue isn't a problem here....yet....</p>

5

<p>Hubbell's dad comments:</p>

<p>Funny, I have had just the opposite experience. I graduated as high school salutatorian in 1972, graduated summa cum laude fron my college, went on to medical school, successful career, yada, yada, yada. Have two sons who I implored to get into the "academic performance cult"-I have actually said such things as " When I was your age, I could quote my GPA to 5 decimal points!!"- the response I got usually was "Well, you were a nut case".</p>

<p>Despite this difference, I think my sons lead far more 'balanced' lives than I did at their age. Oldest son, who is a type B personality, still managed to get into an elite LAC without going overboard etc..youngest son will probably go to a service academy. I can not complain, despite our different approaches to academic life.</p>

6

<p>They had AP classes in 1992?</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
Funny, I have had just the opposite experience. I graduated as high school salutatorian in 1972, graduated summa cum laude fron my college, went on to medical school, successful career, yada, yada, yada. Have two sons who I implored to get into the "academic performance cult"-I have actually said such things as " When I was your age, I could quote my GPA to 5 decimal points!!"- the response I got usually was "Well, you were a nut case".

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's not nuts, that just perfectionist. I plan on being ticked off if I don't graduate college with a 4.0.</p>

8

<p>Ha ha bluealien! I took AP classes and exams back in the Stone Age...er circa 1981....when a 3 would still net you credit. ;)</p>

9

<p>Frazzled, you might be right on the merit money issue, but I'm not so sure the academic cultists have more choices in the end. They may think they have more choices, but I think they actually have LESS, because they tend to focus on a narrow set of highly competitive, extremely selective colleges. Kids who are less determined to get into the "best" colleges may be far more open to colleges with unusual or innovative approaches, and may actually take more time to explore specific programs or areas of interest. They may also be more likely to target schools that are definite matches or true safeties, giving them a higher number of acceptances overall, or at least a higher likelihood of acceptance at their top choices.</p>

<p>One problem with intense, competitive academic focus is that kids miss many opportunities for exploration that would detract from that goal. And at least for some, exploration of a non-academic, non-traditional passion or interest might end up opening doors in unanticipated ways. </p>

<p>You lose a lot of opportunities when you define your personal goals by a competive standard -- it means you have to focus energy on meeting the expectations of others rather than exploring and defining your own interests and desires.</p>

10

<p>I think I read here somewhere that the avaerage Stanford admit has taken "only" five APs, not the double digit ones that some people think are necessary.</p>

<p>In the end, the same number of seats are available whether or not this absurd escalation goes on. As I've said on other threads, we opted out, or to be more honest, we didn't get what was going on, mostly because it's mostly absent in our school system.</p>

<p>I'm not sure it's helping anyone. As Calmom said, you may lose a chance to develop other parts of yourself if you're so focused on academic achievement. I think my kids got more understanding about the world from reading the newspapers and talking about events and ideas around the dinner table than they ever did in school. And it didn't hurt their college admissions, either.</p>

11

<p>I'm glad my son is graduating this year. Next year, the school is going to an 8 period day PLUS something called Zero Period PLUS a Double-Zero Period PLUS an access period. The zero and double zero are for mutual teacher-student scheduled sessions; zero starts at like O-Dark-Thirty and Double Zero gets out at like dinnertime. The access period is for students to drop in on teachers and get help, drop off overdue work, etc.</p>

<p>But back to the eight bassic periods.... Three days a week, there are 8 periods. On Wednesday and Thursday, there are block schedules, four periods a day, 1,3,5,7 on Wed, 2,4,6,8 on Thurs.</p>

<p>There are no lunch periods planned. If a student wants lunch, they would schedule a free period sometime around lunchtime. The expectation is that students will take 6 or 7 periods a day, but the high achievers I've talked to are already planning on the full 8. It is like a competition!</p>

12

<p>Some young people are self-motivated to learn a lot of challenging material when they are of junior high and high school age. I say let the kids who desire to learn a lot do that, if they so please. My kids set their own schedules for what they study when--I keep them out of school so that they can enjoy that flexibility and get plenty of play time and social interaction time.</p>

13

<p>Calmom: </p>

<p>"You lose a lot of opportunities when you define your personal goals by a competive standard -- it means you have to focus energy on meeting the expectations of others rather than exploring and defining your own interests and desires."</p>

<p>You should post your comment EVERYWHERE on this board. Thank you for a note of sanity as we go through the most insane week of the most insane year of our lives.</p>

<p>ez</p>

14

<p>Frazzled: I do believe that MIT Admissions does look for kids who had fun in high school. It certainly explains why they took my kid and not a few others I know. </p>

<p>As for the academic elitism that one sees on CC, it's also true that graduation from the "right" university can make a huge difference in one's lifetime prospects. Or didn't you notice the colleges in our last presidential race?</p>

15

<p>While it is true that the competition panorama has changed, the biggest change has been in the PERCEPTION of what needs to be done. I have little doubt that the prior generations had the same number of brilliant students. I have little doubt that the prior generations had similar numbers of students who exhibited a passion for art, sports, or academic pursuits. </p>

<p>The negative impact of the current "craze" comes from trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. With 41% of the students graduating with a 4.0 average, too many families are clinging to notions of unmeasurable greatness. To this add an unbearable series of activities like piano classes, private tutors, private coaching in multiple sports -mostly chosen by the parents for the sole reason that it WILL look good on the application- and you have the current situation of overworked kids. Sadly enough behing the facade of excellence, the kids are still ... average and common. Just another version of the Stepford children! </p>

<p>For all the criticisms that intimate that college admission's decidsions are equivalent to russian roulette, there is evidence that the schools recognize the truly gifted in the acedemics, arts and sports. The kids who have true passions do NOT have to be pushed and do not seem to suffer from parental pressure. The results in and outside school come almost naturally. </p>

<p>The admission process CAN be gamed. The current craze has been fueled by the successess of families who decided to "fabricate" the candidate. For some, years of pursuing mostly solitary activities that would extol the individual greatness DID pay off. Study the changes in admissions among the various ethnic groups from 1975 to 2005, and you'll identify the successful gamers easily. </p>

<p>The situation in 2005 is, however, different. The biggest problem is that the process of transforming a duck into a swan does not work that well anymore, neither does the idea of multiplying the efforts. What has not changed is that the truly deserving and truly passionate students still finds their home! The admission is not a perfect science but the laws of average works in the favor of the adcoms. They are the ones who see thousands of applications side-by-side; we are left with anedoctal evidence and wild speculation.</p>

16

<p><<as for="" the="" academic="" elitism="" that="" one="" sees="" on="" cc,="" it's="" also="" true="" graduation="" from="" "right"="" university="" can="" make="" a="" huge="" difference="" in="" one's="" lifetime="" prospects.="" or="" didn't="" you="" notice="" colleges="" our="" last="" presidential="" race="">></as></p>

<p>DMD I have to reply -- that's just flat out not correct. Sure, you start looking at the most recent Presidential race and you can get a skewed view. But let's look at governors, senators, and "captains of industry":</p>

<p>Here are the colleges attended by the first 25 governors listed in the Almanac of American Politics circa 2002: Alabama, Yale, Kansas, Ouachita Baptist, Stanford, Austin State, Villanova, a GED recipient, Texas, Georgia, Berkeley, Idaho, Ferris State, Indiana, Hamilton, Kansas Wesleyan, Kentucky, LSU, Dartmouth, Florida State, Trinity, Michigan State, North Hennepin Community College, Mississippi and Southwest Missouri State. </p>

<p>Senior U.S. senators of the other 25 states: Wyoming, Wisconsin, Salem, Washington State, Washington & Lee, St. Michael's, BYU, Georgia, Memphis State, South Dakota State, Clemson, West Point, Penn, Stanford, Oklahoma State, Miami of Ohio, Stanford, Wingate, Harvard, New Mexico, Rutgers, Lafayette, Utah State, Nebraska and Stanford. </p>

<p>Chief executive officers of the top ten Fortune 500 companies: Duke, Pittsburg (Kan.) State, Wisconsin, Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, University of Massachusetts, Dartmouth, Cornell, Miami of Ohio, Institute of Chartered Accountants (Australia) and UC-Berkeley. </p>

<p>And while the most recent presidential election was skewed to Yale, Presidential alma maters include Southwest Texas State Teachers College, Whittier College, Eureka College and at least a couple of dropouts. </p>

<p>So a "difference"? yeah, maybe. A Huge difference? Not a chance, and I have no doubt that the difference is going down, not up, as more incredibly talented kids get relegated to the non-HYSPs of the world because of the academic performance cult.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
the rise of the Academic Performance Cult

[/quote]

Or as my D remarked when she looked over some of the threads here,
"why do these kids all sound like Paris Geller?</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
"why do these kids all sound like Paris Geller?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Because we are seeing a non-representative sample here on College Confidential.</p>

<p>I think that this AP-crazed, Ivy obsession is fairly limited across the US. There seem to be only a handul of pockets where it is truly extreme, with the highest concentrations at the public magnet schools in California, the Washington beltway, and the metro/suburban areas of the northeast. </p>

<p>It's not at all typical of my daughter's high school. Nor, is it essential in getting accepted to top schools. My daughter had three AP courses on her transcript, only took the SATs one time, and didn't have a professional college counselor. There was no competition among her circle of friends in high school or over college admissions, yet they did OK in the admissions game.</p>

<p>I think the "arms-race" mentality towards academics probably works against applicants at many colleges with adcoms looking at an oh-so-impressive collection of 12 AP courses on a transcript and rolling their eyes. </p>

<p>In many cases, the students actually getting accepted to top tier colleges are those who, at least on paper, appear to have a less obsessive-compulsive approach. Those who present themselves as fairly normal kids, succeeding in high school academics without being grinds, with clear tightly-focused identities usually involving one strong extracurricular activity. In fact, I think it is the obsessive academic credential collectors who are probably most often shocked to received rejection letters from top colleges and who (unfairly) blame it on the system being such a random "crapshoot". What they don't understand is that getting into a top college solely on the basis of stratospheric academic stats is probably the most difficult strategy. Skipping a half dozen APs and spending some time on an interesting hobby is probably a more viable strategy.</p>

<p>The problem is that kids get into these uber-magnet school environments and the culture makes it difficult to maintain any perspective. I think the obsessiveness over collecting academic credentials is much worse at these schools than it is at even the most elite, selective prep schools.</p>

19

<p>"I think that this AP-crazed, Ivy obsession is fairly limited across the US."</p>

<p>This is the correct answer.</p>

<p>I go to a thoroughly average high school (good for the region, average for the country): 1020 SAT average, 6-8 APs depending on the year, etc. Most kids are happy to get in to UNC, and aren't heartbroken if they are relegated to UNCW and such. There is always a handful (2 or 3 max) each year that apply to MIT and Ivies and such. One of these three for the senior class was a girl I know who got in to Duke, and although she is what you would think to be the kind to freak out about college admissions she would have been fine at UNC, as she would have probably landed some sort of scholarship. The other two were rejected from MIT, so I don't know where they will end up, but they weren't exactly crushed. I've never met anybody here as obsessed with getting into the IVY LEAGEU!!11 as people on CC, although I imagine that this largely occurs at magnets and private/prep schools, where a disproportionate number of people here are from.</p>

20

<p>For those of us who read the comics while not poring enlessly over Fiske's, it's clear that CC (particularly some of the student sections) is populated by the Phoebe's of the world. I like the Jeremy's, Hector's and Sara's better. And Pierce, well, I was good friends with a couple of "Pierce" types growing up and I'm a better person for it. </p>

<p>Your newspaper
Harbinger in black and white
I crave your comics</p>