The other side is that the kids who were prevented from even doing the classes had no AP score at all. Not sure what kind of kick you get out that? Obstructing access to only the guaranteed top scorers is why such schools can’t fill an AP class. I always assumed that honors designation was something contrived, heck., my kids’ middle school had honors advanced. That is a lot of pandering.
@Sybylla, AP classes that can’t get a vast majority of their students to pass AP tests are a bit of a sham, don’t you think?
And no one prevents you from taking the tests, though, granted, self-study isn’t highly valued in American education.
When I went to high school, “honors” was used to denote a harder version of a class which was not at the level where an AP course would be offered. Examples included math below calculus, Spanish below level 4, where a student was able to choose the honors course (may have required a high enough grade in the previous course to choose honors).
AP exams cost about $100 each. That is chump change to a lot of people, but it is not for many parents out there, and not all school districts pay for AP/IB exams. One could argue that the cost of the exam is minimal relative to the college credit you could get for a 4/5, of course, and I’d agree.
As for IB, it is not at all the same as the AP scenario. For one, IB exams are required for the Diploma programme, and you have to score at a certain level in order to get the Diploma. For another, there are many highly standardized coursework requirements for IB – the Group 4 project (sciences), oral commentaries (English), explorations (math), the Extended Essay, Internal Assessments, etc. (One could also mention additional requirements, such as community service and Theory of Knowledge.) Some of these requirements, like lab reports, are also monitored by external reviewers. The overall IB grade for each course is a combination of internal and external assessments.
How are you defining highly selective. As “most selective” based on places like USNWR? As top 10? Single digit admissions? Top 50?
I’m not sure our untraditional approach to education is at all helpful to outsiders, but my dd’s application outcomes this yr revealed to me more about the process than I had garnered with my older kids. We have been homeschooling since the early 90s. My older kids took more traditional paths in high school–some DE at our local universities, APs like chem and BC, etc. The older ones did not apply to super competitive schools. Our current college student did. He had a very positive application cycle, but it wasn’t really surprising bc he is a gifted young man with high levels of academic achievement that his DE transcript from the univerisity and LOR from college professors confirmed.
Our high school sr this yr marched to a different drummer. She loved the freedom homeschooling provided. She didn’t want to DE nor did she want to take AP courses. I wasn’t quite sure how colleges would view her “courses completed almost entirely at home” transcript. I cautioned her that it might mean she had limited options for college. She was informed of the possible implications, so I let her decide. She had a clear image of what she wanted to do for high school and that is the path she pursued.
We created unique, in-depth courses that offered high levels of challenge according to her specific interests. (Many of these were atypical high school classes designed around literature, foreign language, and culture.) She only had 3 “outside of our home” type courses. For the past 2 yrs she met with a recent French immigrant to read lit and just converse. Dd watches all of her news in French, so they spent a lot of this yr discussing France’s political situation and their elections. She took Russian with a tutor via Skype. (and achieved a high enough level of proficiency to earn numerous regional and international awards.) Her only DE class was stats this spring semester.
She didn’t apply to need-based aid only schools bc we can’t come close to affording our expected contribution, so no idea how she would have fared in their admissions. She was accepted to every school she did apply to and was awarded a scholarship at every one. The highest ranked school she applied to was ranked around 30 (categorized as most selective). She was awarded a full-tuition scholarship at a school ranked around 60 (more selective) and received top competitive scholarships at lower ranked schools (and several of the other awardees turned the scholarships down for elite schools.)
Based on the feedback she received, schools were interested in her bc she is very self-motivated and has a strong desire to learn. She was able to demonstrate that through her achievements even though those achievements were not standard high school course ones.
Don’t know if that info helps at all in general, but I am glad I let my Dd follow her own path. Her high school yrs were fabulous. It was an unknown path bc everyone we know conforms to AP and DE validation of their homeschool.
Fwiw, as a homeschooler all you have to do to list a course on a transcript as AP is submit a syllabus to CB for approval. It is a fairly simple process, but it doesn’t guarantee anything about actual course quality and mastery of material.
@warblersrule gave a good description of the IB diploma program above.
I would add that (1) at some schools, it is possible to take individual IB courses without being enrolled in the diploma program; (2) it is not possible to self-study for IB tests because certain assignments completed during the course (those internal and external assessments mentioned above) count for part of the IB exam grade.
There’s some silly European-style politically motivated crud in IB, but it’s offset by the opportunity to spend most of your time with like-minded students, which is one of the main reasons why kids are in these programs anyhow.
AP teacher here - I can tell you 1st hand that AP classes - like most things in education - fall ALL over the spectrum. When there are issues, sometimes the flaw lies with the teacher (maybe they are new, maybe they don’t have a full understanding of the process), sometimes with the school (whom do they allow to take classes? How big are the classes?, sometimes with the college board (They keep redesigning classes, and don’t always give the full tools teachers need). No such thing as a perfect system.
We have a fairly selective (but not uber selective) private school in town that does not offer any APs. None at all. No IBs, no concurrent college credits, no honors classes, nothing. They don’t even have a “rigorous” curriculum vs. a “regular” curriculum. Everyone takes the same level classes. The school currently has alumni in most of the Ivys, all of the service academies, and a ton of other highly prestigious public and private schools.
I cannot agree more. When S was in hs, I’d say 3 of his AP courses were college level. The others were mostly a joke. The big picture problem is that the College Board would have you believe that it’s all unicorns and rainbows. Kids and parents drink the College Board’s Kool Aid and accept as an absolute truth the College Board’s propaganda.
https://apstudent.collegeboard.org/home
APs can help you get ahead in college.