The Best Astrophysics Institutions for Americans.

College Search & Selection
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<p>After looking at countless ranking, and with such errors in ranking I have taken the liberty of organizing the Best Astrophysics Institutions available to Americans. These lists are organized for both the Graduate school and Undergraduate school. Each section has its specific criteria. Please refer to this ranking when making you selection, I had to dig for information and I have posted my findings, so take advantage of it. </p>

<p>The Ivory Dozen-
These schools are ranked with the quality of the education, research, connections, and student outcome. this should be your primary guide. The quality of the program is extremely secretive to the school's ranking below-
1. California Institute of Technology.
2. Cambridge University.
3. Princeton University.
4. University of Chicago.
5. Harvard University.
6. University of California-Berkeley.
7. Ohio State University.
8. Columbia University.
9. Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
10. Pennsylvania State University.
11. Cornell University
12. University of Washington.</p>

<p>The Shangri-La List-
N.B- you should select a few of these as "dream schools."
If you are looking for the prestige, this is a list of the most prestigious Astrophysics degrees on the planet, if you can get your self into one of them, you are good for life. But they also represent the most selective schools.
In no particular order-<br>
• Princeton University.
• Harvard University.
• University of Oxford.
• University of Chicago.
• Yale University.
• Cambridge University.</p>

<p>The Rationalist’s List
This is a list of excellent Astronomy departments/schools with relatively lower admissions rate. Do not be fooled by this, some of these programs are traditionally ranked higher than Ivy league Astronomy/physics departments. The list is ranked in quality NOT ease of admissions-<br>
1. Pennsylvania State University.
2. Ohio State University-Main Campus.
3. University of Arizona.
4. University of Maryland (College Park).
5. University of Virginia.
6. Rutgers University.</p>

<p>The Elite 5
This are the 5 best schools over all. These schools should be on everyone's Astrophysics school lists. Listed in no particular order-<br>
• California Institute of Technology.
• Princeton University.
• University of Chicago.
• University of California-Berkeley.
• Pennsylvania State University.</p>

<p>British counter parts, Oxbridge, are also considered one of the elites, they are not included due to the difficulty in gaining admissions. </p>

<p>Worthy runner ups-
• Ohio State University-Main Campus.
• University of Arizona.</p>

<p>What about the others-
Yes, yes what about Stanford, Duke, Rice, Penn or Brown? well they are very good schools and programs but they are not the best in ASTRONOMY! They have very good physics programs though.</p>

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<p>Thanks Raj!</p>

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<p>Interesting thread. There hasn’t been much on astrophysics on CC since Harvard<em>and</em>Berkeley (a PhD/post-doc in astrophysics) stopped posting a while back.</p>

<p>I was under the impression that UT Austin, Hawaii, Colorado, and especially UCSC also had good programs. Any reasons they didn’t make the cut?</p>

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<p>Now you are going to make me explain my self :frowning: . I was afraid someone would bring up UT Austin, It is one of the top 15 programs in the nation, it even has its own observatory. But I did not have enough space for them in the dozen but it would be number 13 for sure. (This includes Hawaii). Colorado on the other hand, as a grad school, is a sinking ship as of right now, they focus on astronomy so much that graduates are not being exposed to other basic skills (ones that are postgraduate). You might argue that that is what grad school should be like but consider the competition, a well rounded Penn State grad Vs an Astor-freak from Colorado. Note that I am not saying they have a bad program, they do have a good program but it is not one of the best. I did not visit UCSC nor did I speak to any graduate from there so I thought it would be unfair to rank them. But according to other ranking web sights they are top 15.</p>

<p>Schools that did not make the list- (In no particular order)</p>

<p>Very close ties to the Ivory Dozen
• UT Austin :slight_smile:
• Yale University. (Was only listed as a Shangri-La school)
• UCLA. (some graduates have trouble finding jobs)
• UCSC. (from what I read, so this is not my experience)
• Illinois-Urbana.
• Hawaii. (Very good program but no social life)
• Johns Hopkins University. (Unemployment for some reason)
• University of Michigan-Ann Arbor. (Unemployment)
• University College of London.
• North Carolina at Chapel Hill.</p>

<p>Very good joint Physics-Astronomy programs-
• Dartmouth College.
• <em>Stanford</em>.
• Penn. (not experimental though)
• University of Hawaii at Manoa. (don’t go there for Astro majors do physics)
• Carnegie Mellon University.
• Rice University.
• Boston College.
• Syracuse University.
• NYU. (Of-course ;( )
• Rutgers (Surprising really, I thought it was an underdog)
• UCSB.
• I think I might be forgetting some others.</p>

<p>“J.V” Astronomy Schools-</p>

<p>• New Mexico State University-Main Campus.
• Michigan State University.
• University of Minnesota-Twin Cities. (Ironically, not too good, probably the weakest)
• Georgia State University. (I would avoid)
• Boston University. (Good name but weak program)
• University of Florida. (Very weak program)
• Lehigh University (weakest)</p>

<p>NOTE! THESE LISTS DO NOT MEAN YOU SHOULD/NOT ATTEND A SCHOOL BECAUSE OF THE RANKING. IT IS NOT ABOUT WHAT THE SCHOOL DOES FOR YOU, IT IS ABOUT WHAT YOU DO AT THAT SCHOOL THAT MATTERS!!!
If I was reviewing applications, I would hire some one that went above and beyond at a JV school than some one who barely got their Phd or MS from an Ivory. So please keep in mind, it is all about you not the schools. The school you go to is just a back drop to your story. Think about A. Einstein, no fancy education, he cut most of his classes and did not even get a job in Physics. He did not give up did he? Your passion for astronomy should come within, not motivated by what school you go to!</p>

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<p>I forgot the University of Liverpool in the list as well.</p>

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<p>Thank you for this I will definitely keep it in mind. :)</p>

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<p>Not very good. Better</p>

<p>[NRC</a> Rankings Overview: Astrophysics and Astronomy - Faculty - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“NRC Rankings Overview: Astrophysics and Astronomy”>NRC Rankings Overview: Astrophysics and Astronomy)</p>

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<p>barrons the ranking you posted is very similar to the one above… I made it clear that I posted this because I was tired of rankings like the one you posted.</p>

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<p>Interesting. I was also under the impression that UCSC is one of the top-10.</p>

<p>One thing that’s odd - Stanford’s astrophysics is unranked in the new NRC ranking, but it was ranked in the [1995</a> one](<a href=“http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/area27.html]1995”>NRC Rankings in Astrophys/Astron), where it was #22, right after Penn State #21, which seemed to have jumped quite a few spots. So either Stanford’s astrophysics either completely lost it or was ineligible for the new rankings for whatever reason.</p>

<p>(edit: Google is ridiculous - I just posted this, then did a google search on this, where the first hit was the post I made seconds before. Creepy.)</p>

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<p>@creacher,</p>

<p>Absolutely fantastic compilation!! Thanks for sharing!! :)</p>

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<p>yep UCSC is in the worthy to 10 runner up, others are in post number 5</p>

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<p>

What is this supposed to mean? I’m genuinely curious.</p>

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<p>If you go to Manoa, you would benefit more from majoring in Physics than you would majoring in Astronomy. This goes for Grads as well.</p>

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<p>Speaking as a current physics grad student at UH Manoa, I find that sentiment gratifying but surprising. It should be noted in case anyone is interested in pursuing a degree here that the physics and astronomy departments are functionally separate, even though they are technically one department. I do think our physics program is pretty strong, but only in a few select areas. If you want to do HEP, FEL, or particle astrophysics, there’s a lot of good work happening here, but otherwise you’re much less likely to find anyone pursuing research in your area of interest.</p>

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<p>wow, I know that the physics program is really good but can you give us some more insight on the Astro majors? are you connected to the U Hawaii? How is the social life there?</p>

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<p>As I’ve said, I am a graduate student here in physics. I don’t really have a lot of insight into the astronomy program, as they’re located in a separate building apart from the main campus and kind of do their own thing. I did take a general relativity class in the astro department for a few weeks, but I ended up dropping it due to lack of time. </p>

<p>As for social life, I can only speak from a graduate student’s perspective. I do not think UH would have a tremendously appealing social scene for undergrads since it’s largely a commuter campus, but I did my undergrad at a small private school where basically everyone lived and partied on campus, so my perspective is probably skewed. The social life as a grad student isn’t bad; as Ph.D. students most of us spend way too much time studying or working in lab, but there is quite a bit to do around Honolulu if you can make time. There are lots of great beaches and hiking spots, obviously, and a fair number of bars and spots to catch local bands and such. My main complaint as someone who moved here from the mainland is that the island can feel a bit stifling and there are some negative aspects to how isolated we are; we don’t get that many good concerts, for example, because most artists aren’t that keen to fly all the way to Hawaii for one show.</p>

<p>From what I can tell, you’re still pretty early in your physics career (starting undergrad soon, if I’m not mistaken), but I’m happy to answer any questions you or other people might have about our department.</p>

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<p>Well Creacher, I think your rankings are uninformed and arbitrary.</p>

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<p>So do the people who take survey rankings seriously. Listen, with all due respect, you did not even ask me how I came up with this “ranking,” this “ranking” took me 2 years to organize, and I find it completely pointless now because I should have been concentrating on my own reputation. So I posted this so that people don’t spend time doing the same and focus on their school. If it won’t be of use to me, I am sure it will help other prospective students. And I am very sure there are others who disagree with this, which is fine, I offered the tool and it is up to you to make something out of it…</p>

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<p>My son was accepted into both schools and wants to major in physics. He feels Carnegie Mellon is better academically and is a better social fit for him ( smaller school).<br>
The problem is cost. The University of Florida would be free and Carnegie Mellon about $55,000 a year. Is the education worth the difference in cost. He would of course go on to grad school and he would like the opportunity to study abroad. He did not get into his first three choices ( Dartmouth, Duke and MIT). He wants to be academically challenged. I would appreciate any advice you have.</p>

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<p>@Tracyf, welcome to CC, I obviously cant tell you which one is the right path for your son but I found my self in the same spot as him. It all depends on what he wants to do, and as you have mentioned, he wants to go to grad school. I got into the astronomy programs at penn state and Chicago (top 5) but I would have been 120K+ in debt by the time I got out of undergrad. Rutgers, with a fair Physics program, offered me a large sum of money so I took the offer. I dont want to have to worry about debt especially with the amount of time an average Astro major waits before his/her real first job. So I am focusing on getting into one of the Ivories for grad school. They dont care where you come from as long as you have 3 things-
1 RESEARCH experiences !!!
2 GPA of 3.5+ and a “high” GRE (the higher the better of course).
3 external funding.</p>

<p>My friend who went to Georgia Tech once told me that it is better to be the smartest kid at an average school than an average kid at the smartest school. So ask you son if he believes that he can achieve the 3 things I listed above at the Florida, if the answer is yes then full ride trumps everything! And if he does not like it there he can transfer out to a better school. Remember, it is all about the grad school. It is better to go from an average school to a top ten school than it is the other way around. </p>

<p>Here is more from a Princeton Grad student
<a href=“https://sps.scripts.mit.edu:444/resources/gradschool.pdf[/url]”>https://sps.scripts.mit.edu:444/resources/gradschool.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
Good luck!</p>